Category: Parent Talk
Hello, Everyone. How would you feel if your children turned out to be gay? Do you think people are born gay, or does influence play a big role? Why or why not.
Hi Dolse,
In the majority of cases, someone is born gay; it's like you were born with whatever colour hair and eyes you have.
Throughout my childhood, I always believed I was "different" sexually speaking; basically I thought I was gay; The acceptance was huge.
I've got a boyfriend now but I don't like labels as I still probably would be considered as bi even though I'm not attracted to a woman at the moment and haven't been for a while.
Because of the above experience, I'd definitely accept my kids no matter what they told me about their sexuality.
I grew up with a half brother we all quietly suspected was gay... I've had gay friends. So, with all this in mind. I can honestly say, I really don't give a damn which way someone swings, as long as they're happy. I don't see why The same wouldn't hold true for my kids, if I ever had them.
why wouldn't one accept their kid if he or she was gay. that's like saying one wouldn't accept his or her own kid if the kid was blind. That's cruel. of course I'd accept my kid, regardless of his sexual orientation.
Ah Berndetta; some parents actually don't accept it; it's very very sad but true. I've seen it on the American talk shows like Oprah so it's sadly real in America, but everywhere I would assume.
sorry Bernadetta; typing too fast I guess *grr
yes, of course I'd accept my children if they should turn out to be gay. I know what it's like to go through not being accepted myself, so I wouldn't inflict that on anyone else.
If I should become a father, I would stand by my child or children no matter what. If they were blind, gay, big nosed, or committed murder, it is what a parent is to do. No parent does everything right, but any good parent would love and support their child no matter what they believe or do.
I like how ryan put it. I would accept my children straight, bye, gay or whatever the heck they pick. My family had raised each and everyone of my sibblings and I that its not right though. But I would still stand by my kids even though if I had not been straight my family would not by me. I think you should always stick by your child, no matter what he or she has done. That's one thing my grandmother has taught me.
A few questions here, and they should make clear where I stand on this issue.
First, isn't it a little strange that we call it "Turning out gay". As if being gay were this weird thing that we hope and pray our children don't come out as.
Second, does it make a difference whether they're born gay or become gay? I wasn't born a writer, but I am one now. I wasn't born opinionated, but I am now. I was born an atheist, and I now am one again. What does it matter?
I personally don't care how they arrive at the point they are gay, or whatever they wish to term it. If they are happy, and not harming anyone else, or ruling anyone by force they can be as they are.
I draw the line at abuse, and could not accept my child molesting, or raping, or abusing anyone due to their sexual needs.
After that person became grown, I'm sorry, but if I knew it was true I'd have to turn them in myself.
Other then that, be gay, be happy, come to dinner often, and bring your other please.
speaking for myself, I wasn't trying to imply that I think being gay is something horrible. I realize the way I wrote it made it sound otherwise, though, so forgive me. it was early in the morning, and my fault for posting when I've hardly had any sleep.
We have a long way to go yet if this is still a question.
Cody, the majority of people are born with their sexual preferences just with the examples I mentioned above. We hear a few people say after usually a bad relationship, that they've gone gay and I have seen this happen and even got friends in the situation so I'm not disagreeing with you there.
I don't have statistics or anything but I say the majority is from birth however.
And Pimped out BigBird, just be careful of the wording you use there "whatever they pick'"; it is not a choice in the majority of cases.
I do disagree with homosexuality (for a meriad of reasons), however I think Meglet and ForReal said it best. I really don't want my children to be gay; however, I do want to be the kind of parent who my son or daughter is comfortable telling. I will still love them, and accept them, regardless of their sexual preference. And yes, I feel I can love and accept them, and still not be happy with it. Just because I disagree with homosexuality, does not mean I think homosexuals are bad, evil, or even unpleasant people. People are people; what they are, to me, is less important than who they are.
I know several homosexuals who would be very insulted at you saying that their homosexuality is not part of who they are. Its not a hair color.
Cody, How you were born doesn't matter, you being a writer, you being opinionated or atheism are not the topic. Many parents have traditional values they wish not to discard when raising their children, and thus have had strong aversion against gay/lesbianism. And as the person better gets to know him/herself while parents strongly influence them how wrong it is for you to feel attracted to another boy, how boys should not play with dalls and girls where ear rings and dresses; it becomes so confusing, that the grown person stays hidden in the closet for fear they won't be accepted, and therefore, some say they turned out gay. Some people said having discovered they are gay after marriage and kids. Others have had deceptions with previous relationships and have decided to be one or the other. So there. Some parents would not be happy with their children or even accept, others accept it and keep on loving them regardless while others are not happy with their sexual orientation yet stand by them always. I personally don't think it matters. I do have values I'd inculcate to my children, but people grow and form their own criteria, so if my children believed something different than I do or are gay it won't make any difference as for my love for them, because if they're happy, then what better?
hang on, are you talking to me? it is a part of who they are and I would never suggest otherwise. I said that it's like you being born with a certain hair colour; you can't change how you were born.
As for thinking homosexuality is bad, I know you can't always change your opinion but I don't know how that means you'd be accepting of your children coming out to you The_Blind_Guardian. if and when they realize, I'd wager they won't feel too comfortable.
Just my thoughts.
exactly; being a writer or opinionated is very different to deciding in the minority of cases to becoming gay; I'd meant to also say this; so comparing the two is not even possible.
Fair enough, lightning. perhaps I used the wrong words. Simply put, I meant that a person's personalities and their actions mean more to me than what they believe, or how they live.
As for accepting my children in spite of their sexual orientation, yes, I believe I could indeed do that. I have both family and friends who are gay/Lesbian, and I care about them just as much after having discovered that. Children might be a different story; I won't know a lot about my reactions until a cituation arises. But I still think I'd be fine.
I seriously do not understand why we say things like "I have gay and lesbian friends", as if that makes us more accepting. Having straight friends doesn't make you more accepting. Its expected. Why is homosexuality so unexpected?
And no RT, I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to BG.
Dolce, I think you misunderstood my meaning. My meaning is that whether bill likes jill or bill like thomas is as inconsequential to your accepting of bill as to whether bill is an author or bill is a bank clerk. It shouldn't matter at all. Not a bit.
I don't understand it, either, Cody. it just sounds like something those people feel automatically makes them accepting, as you said.
I seem to have been born so-called straight, so I have just assumed the gays are born gay.
People have all sorts of values they must discard when they become parents. If you're a highly driven person, and your kid is not, I don't mean a slacker but just not as driven, then you will have to adjust your value system to deal with the situation at hand.
Now there is something I do feel strongly about on account of the gays, and I understand why my pacifist Lesbian friend doesn't like it.
But if my daughter had come out with telling me she was gay, I would enlist her in self-defense and as an adult have her convinced to carry a concealed weapon. Too many of the gays turn up dead because of anti-gay terrorist attacks. If you are both gay and anti-gun I understand you not liking my comments, but to be honest, if the construction workers are wearing helmets to protect themselves from falling iron, then in the society we live now, the gays should be carrying concealed weapons to protect against assaults, since they are in particular targets. Well this is also true for the transsexuals or other sexual type situations.
Personally I don't so much think that people get caught up in the other person's sexuality, it's that they know those people are a extreme minority and due to a pathetic and punk-ass attitude think they can work off their aggressions on them. Especially because they're such a extreme minority.
So yes, sure I would accept her being gay, I would simply not accept the chances of her turning up dead at the hands of a punk, so I would pay for a firearms instructor and get her certified to carry concealed.
Leo, this is just my personal opinion, and you're welcome to disregard it if you wish. You should make sure she knows how to defend herself anyway. All children, especially girls, should know how to do that. Just my two cents.
I think you're right. Turned into a sort of a marital issue when she was about 9. Not that the wife disagreed with self defense, it was as she called it the way I went about things.
But yeah my daughter learned about situational readiness, how to hit someone in the solar plexus, and God damn it, how to throw a fucking punch! I made her hit me, since me not being able to see, I wanted to be sure I knew she knew what I was showing her.
You're absolutely right about self defense, and situational awareness, travel in groups and the like, especially for girls.
I would push the concealed carry issue, though, if she had told us she was gay. Not that I have any issue at all with any straight woman carrying concealed. Just saying, maybe if they're gay, and they have a ideology problem with guns, maybe time to overcome ideology as an obstacle, in favor of safety.
Maybe pick was a bad word to use, I am sorry for that. Though I cant speak whether a person is born with knowing of being gay or not. My sister decided recently to be bye, she never seemed inclined to that style ever before. But I was the only one informed of her preference because she knew I would support her instead of bashing her. She wanted our biological mother to know, so when she spoke my biological mother of course got upset. She told my grandmother, and the whole dispute about being gay is a sin began. Either way, I still stand on my last post. I'll accept my children as they come.
I don’t totally believe that anyone that is gay was born with that gender, or idea, or sexual preference.
Maybe some can honestly claim it, but many decide after they are becoming sexually active, in the sense of noticing the other sexes.
If I had been thought from birth it was perfectly natural to love another man physically, I’d do it now and notfeel as if I was odd.
I also agree with self-defense, but I don’t want everyone that is gay or decided their gay to carry a concealed weapon. The first lesson of self-defense is avoiding trouble. Only in extreme cases does a person require a weapon, and if they live in a place it is necessary, then sure, they might seek proper training, but not on the bases they are gay. People aren’t all mentally stable.
In avoiding trouble I mean be as you are, but you don’t need to flaunt it. I don’t wear a penis flag on my shirt to announce I’m a straight male, so if you know wearing your rainbow flag might get you hurt, why do it?
Being gay, and flaunting it is two different things. If gay were something you had to be, like black, or Mexican, or whatever, you can’t help it that people know who might object, but just like being straight is how you are, you can be gay just the same without all the uproar.
I avoid situations that might be deadly to me as a black person, so why not as a gay person?
Back on the subject my child is my child gay or not, and will be treated just the same. Sexual preference doesn’t factor in to love.
Why should they have to hide that about themselves? Christians are allowed to wear crosses and crucifixes, and if they got beaten in alleys for doing it there would be an uproar. Why is a gay man not allowed to wear a rainbow pin? That's not acceptance, that's tolerance, and barely that.
I'm not suggesting they shouldn't be allowed, I am suggesting they should use prudents if they decide to.
Until education is made, is seems a good idea to me not to wear your rainbow flag in some places. Unless you are picking a fight you feel you have some success at winning why do it?
It's not harming anyone directly though. Anybody who goes out of their way to hurt somebody because of what someone wears or does, even though it has no intent of harm to the perpetrator, is a walking discrimination.
However, it's kind of like being on here. There are people who will find a reason to attack someone if they can, and they will.
People always have reasons to attack someone. That reason being right or wrong is the problem and will always be with us.
That's the same as saying that if black people didn't want to be whipped as slaves they should have behaved better. That's a sick way of thinking. No one should have to worry about getting beaten up for a shirt.
But black people did even after slavery. Fix it.
Even to this day if you are a mixed couple, and I date all races, it is not prudent to take my white, Mexican, Asian, girlfriend in to certen areas or places.
When it became possible for black people to travel pretty much as they pleased, and they weren't property, it became possible to use prudents and not go to certen places or areas, because the world was bigger.
Gay people have this available to them now, so when wearing your rainbow flag go where you can. If you can win the fight, go where you might be attacked.
Is all this fair, no, but it is a fact of life, so why make life worse because you must flaunt? Just not necessary.
Because it isn't a fact of life, its a feature of certain members of society. That can be fixed. Rather than saying, "its a fact of life", you should be saying, "Lets change it".
Plus, there are laws against beating someone up, there are no laws against wearing a shirt.
I did say fix it. But that won't happen today, so in the mean time.
Oh my goodness, wayne. you just said that until people get educated, gay people shouldn't flaunt their homosexuality. Really? and how do you suppose the education is supposed to happen if people aren't open with it? Come on. that lacks logic in every sense of the word.
If the first seeing eye student didnt' bring his dog to public establishments and businesses, we wouldnt' be able to do so, freely today.
Are you suggesting that blind people should also hide their canes and dogs because blindness doesn't sit well with some? are you suggesting that a lesbian couple shouldn't take a walk with their children in a park because it might leave a bad taste in someone's mouth?
I feel sorry for the girls you've dated who you claim were of a different race than yourself. If I were the white, asian, mexican, etc. chick in your presence and I realized you weren't eager to go certain places with me as a couple, I'd leave your silly ass standing alone in the middle of the street. lol.
Come on, have some common sense now. Guess your more a follower than a leader, though, judging by your train of thought. Leaders, innovators, trailblazers...They all did things that are supposedly imprudent to change the so-called norm, to open people's eyes and minds to how things aught to be.
Men started being present in maternity wards by their woman's side as she gave birth to their children. These same men openly cooked for their families, fed, changed and swaddled their babies, all of which was once unheard of and unacceptable. There are stay at home dads now who aren't afraid of admitting to the role.
Women talk openly about sexual pleasure and having orgasms, where that was once perceived whorish and improper. If no one took the step to make these changes as you suggest, I'd wager that our society would be a backward one still.
I do believe we are way past the Civil Times in this country. There are certain areas that are bad, but it is because of crime alone. Not because of racial discrimination.
Needless to say there are people out there who still advocate things such as the KKK, but specific areas shouldn't be a deterent just because you are black, gay, or Christian. Common sense would tell you not to go outside in south Chicago at three AM, because you could get robbed, however the robber won't rob you because he thinks white people are easy targets.
Writer, you miss my point totally.
You see a lesbian couple can take a walk in the park with their children. I can take my dates where I like, and do so.
Yes, I do agree that education is necessary, but here is where you mis understood me.
As Ryan stated, if you know somethings going to get you hurt you are stupid to do it.
I personally care enough about the person I am dating not to make her a target just because I need to educate people. The world is large enough, so that small areas can easily be avoided.
I personally am a man that is not afraid to walk where and when he chooses, but I also use sense, not my stupidity when I exercise this.
Example, if I take my white date to an all white biker bar in Mississippi I know is racist, and get her beaten because I can not defend her, who has gotten educated? We have for being dumb enough to go in there when we could just as easily go someplace else.
Now sure, gay people can be gay, but I don't feel they need to get killed to prove that they can go certen places flaunting the rainbow flag to educate anyone. Why is it necessary to flaunt? Why can't a person be gay, and enjoy their gayness peacefully?
Some people are going to know they are gay, others don't know them personally, and have not visited their bed room, so aren't sure.
You happen to not know if I am bisexual or completely straight, now do you?
On this sight is a perfect place for people to say and be as they are, but in other cases I think people are stupid for getting killed when they could simply not flaunt. Do this on Gay pride day, live in a gay community, and display your blue porch light where it is accepted. Write letters, change laws, but don't be stupid.
The next time you and your boyfriend feel like taking a walk with your child at around 3 A.M why don't you just do this. You should be able to right? Putting you and your child at risk is educating people right? Take that walk, why don't you, and have your boyfriend wear his Rolex, place his stack of money in plain side, and do this in the Bronx. Better yet, don't hold your childs hand, because, hell, he should be able to walk free on the land right?
Logical, weign... people don't like what they can't understand
There is a difference between wearing a rolex at three AM in a bad part of town and wearing a gay pride bracelet or attending a gay pride parade. The fact that you can't understand that is staggering.
You think gay pride is just a status symbol they slap on to make themselves feel good about it? You think its just an accessory like a ring or necklace? There is so much more to it than that.
You're basically telling martin luther king that he shouldn't step into the street because there are men over there with fire hoses and german shepherds. You're saying that it was the fault of the blacks when those german shepherds attacked. You're saying that when they got thrown in jail for hosting a peaceful demonstration, that it was there fault because they dared to go against the norm.
I'm sorry, but the fact that you don't understand the nature of social change, or the fact that you are talking about a liberation movement and a struggle for equal civil rights disgusts me.
But, I am not talking about a these things at all. Have you read my post and read it actually?
Did you not see me state about the blue lights, going to a gay right's day, and that sort of thing?
I think you miss read, because you wish to argue the point.
Yes, I read it, but what you're saying is "No, you can't actually be outwardly proud of your homosexuality and your personality, but here's your consolation prize. You can have a blue light on your porch." Life doesn't work that way. They tried that with black people in the 1800's and 1950's, with the atheists in the 1960's and with blind people in a whole bunch of decades.
How would you like it if your parents said, "No, you can't cross streets on your own or actually be independent, but you can have this white cane to hang on your wall. It'll look really nice in your room". That's what you're saying. The fact that you don't even realize how despicable that is is what has me so baffled.
I'm in agreement with Forereel on this, and I'll explain why.
As a person who's currently in an interracial relationship, and yes, I do believe that's even more frowned upon than a gay relationship, I always watch who I tell, or who we're seen with. Due to my background, and how my parents felt about such things, I always felt that interracial relationships were something that you deserved to get killed for. Obviously, that didn't stop me, but in the back of my mind, I've always been super careful about who I tell about my black boyfriend. Being a white person, I'm used to the barrage of insults, like how I supposedly think I'm too good for my own race.
I don't understand. It makes it sound as though you are ashamed of it in some ways. If the relationship is going so well and you are both happy, why the hell care what people think, say, or do? Why try to avoid the inevitable? Again, it's not areas that is the problem. It's people we are talking about more so, personal beliefs.
Um... yeah. If I were your black boyfriend and I saw your message on this board, I'd break up with you in a minute.
That's like saying: Well, I was always brought up with the belief that I should date someone normal, sighted--you know? And I completely love my blind boyfriend/girlfriend, but I'm careful who I talk to about him/her being blind, because it's not widely accepted.
I was in a relationship like that once. A guy told me that he and his family always had a problem with him dating a blind girl, but he'd make an acception for me, though we shouldn't flaunt the relationship. But guess what? The guy was blind himself.
Go. figure.
Anyway, if you have some sort of hangups about being with someone of a different race, I suggest you either get over your hangups or you get rid of the relationship. Because if you think that your relationship is going well despite your caussion, your kidding yourself.
The post Bernadetta refers to does sound bad I know.
I'm on a few communities online where interracial relationships are so much frowned upon by their parents that they threaten to disown them and in some cases, this happens. But I dirgess; this not the topic at hand.
You know what, I'm in a situation that has gotten me disowned by half my family. My father's side of the family doesn't speak to me because of my religious leanings, and won't talk to me in the near future unless I accept jesus. I've lost friends and girlfriends because of it. But you know what, none of them were truly my friend. If I have to mumble to the same invisible being they do to be there friend, I don't want to be there friend.
Its the same as being in an interracial relationship. If you have to be secret about it, you're not truly in the relationship. I agree with Bernadetta, I'd break up with you in a heartbeat if you told me that.
Its also the same with gay people. You're basically trying to tell people that they can do whatever they want, as long as they never show it. You're treating it as if its a sin to be gay, as if its something dirty that they need to hide away. You're treating them like they have some disease that you just don't want to know about, and they should just keep it under wraps for your sake. We have a word for that in the English language, its called bigotry.
Now true, you don't go around in white sheets and burn crosses, but you're still treating people differently on account of sexual orientation. That is bigotry, and it sickens me to see it in people who should really understand how it feels to be oppressed by a world we don't fit in. We should be siding with the gays because not that long ago we weren't allowed the freedoms we have today. There was a time we blind people weren't allowed educations, and it wasn't but a few decades ago. There was a time when we blind people would have been sent to schools to make broomsticks and wicker chairs. You should know how it feels, and you should sympathize with gays. Instead you judge them, and treat them like lepers that should hide in closets for your pleasure.
In my personal opinion you're worse than violent bigots. At least they're stupid and backward and uneducated, what's your excuse.
thank you, Cody and Bernadetta. very well said.
I, too, would break up with you in a heartbeat, SS, if I were your boyfriend and found out you were so ashamed of me that you choose not to be seen with me in certain places, or that you're careful about who you tell of the "relationship." I put relationship in quotes, cause you can't call it one, with your biggotted attitude, and the fact you're so willing to further your family/society's views about interracial couples being something to be ashamed of and kept as quiet as possible.
the same thing goes for homosexuality. people should be able to wear rainbow flags if they want, without having to fear biggotted attitudes like, "oh, I accept how they live, but why put themselves in that danger, if they know what they're getting into?" that's beyond disgusting, along with the racial example I listed above.
Had I not lived in Florida I would never have believed this about the interracial thing. How divided America really is, even still, even in 2013. Up here in the Pacific Northwest, even in the 1970s, they had books for us in school about black is beautiful and all of that. And yet even now in 2013, there are kids being disowned by parents over interracial relationships. This shocks me.
And Cody I do agree wholeheartedly on this one. I was often punished the harshest if someone could tell for one reason or another, that I was blind. I don't make an issue of blindness one way or the other, but those who shout "Don't make an issue of it," are no better than the over-the-top protests, and are making more of an issue out of it than anybody else is.
I'd say don't hide your relationship. But if your relationship happens to be endangered at the moment due to societal acceptance of violence against you, be prepared to fight for it, and your life. And that with a concealed weapon, if necessary.
Had the over-the-top punishments of my childhood morphed into adolescent violence or adult violence, one possible outcome I did account for, I would to this day carry concealed, not just for my own protection but for that of my family. I've occasionally had to fight for my parental status as well. This was less about me, and more about my daughter being able to have a normal upbringing, despite somebody else's ideology, or, as some of us would call it, idiot-ology.
I am having a difficult time explaining what I mean.
You can be gay, wear your Rainbow flag. Okay I've said that.
Now, why can't you be gay, and just be gay?
If you are in a paraid or something like that, that is the place to wear your rainbow flag, but as an everyday thing why?
Next, if you know wearing your flag will get you hurt, why not live and be happy?
If I were a gay man I'd be gay. I'd enjoy my love life just like I do now, and the people that happen to see would see. Hiding it just wouldn't be my style.
But I'd not be on the corner yelling at everyone I could that I was gay. I just don't see the point.
I have something many people disagree about, I don't care about age, as long as it is legal. People can't deal with that either. If my girlfriend happens to be 20 years under or 20 years over, I don't care, and I do exactly what I'd do if she were 2 years under or over.
People see the under thing as dirty. I've had and heard objections about it, but I simply don't care.
Saying that, unless I am in a discussion about it, or debate, I don't go out of my way to holler on the corner about it, I just live it.
As far as dating a different race, the girl really should give that some thought. I can see protecting your relationship if you are going to be in harms way, but on a daily bases, no. You need to be upfront, move in with him, and enjoy your relationship. I posted that opinion on another board you posted on.
I personally do not see color, sexual orientation, religion, or any of that when I like someone. I can respect it, although I am not it.
That again is why my child should be gay, and bring his or her lover home, to family events, and anything else.
Ok, so let me set you up a scenario here. Lets say you're sixty years old and you're dating a twenty year old girl. Maybe you're rich, who knows. You're saying that you wouldn't go out in public as a couple, because people wouldn't like that? You're saying you'd be a couple in private, but you wouldn't speak to her in public because people would be displeased about that?
And there is a very simple answer to your question of why they shouldn't just be gay quietly. Its because they are being repressed. They are currently fighting for rights that they are being denied on the basis of their sexual orientation. In order to fight against that, they have to be seen. But perhaps you don't want them to have basic human rights.
There is a safe way to be seen, and a unsafe way to be seen.
There is a form to fight on, and a time to live life without struggle.
If you are a gay person wanting to be treated as a citizen, act like a citizen who is gay, not a gay person that needs to flaunt to prove they are gay at the wrong times, so they are harmed.
I just don't see the need to post a sign on your back stating your sexual orientation.
Now if I were 20 and dating a 16 year old girl, I'd speak to her in public just the same, but you best believe because it is technically not legal to have intimate relations with her, I would have to study the laws in my state, and be friendly with her parents.
This is the weird thing about that, if I get put in jail for 2 years for rape, not only do I not get to see her anymore, I get a record that will harm our future, so if I just must have her I'd give up the intimacy until her 18th birthday. In doing that we have life.
Now, must 20 year old men don't think about these things, but sense you stated this question there is your answer.
I was always a prudent person, even at 20. It just makes life easier.
Did you even read the scenario?
And many gay people are not going out wearing gay pride flags. Many of them are just holding hands with their boyfriend or girlfriend. Would you deny them that too? At what point do you say enough is enough and actually start to defend the victim? Right now you're blaming the victim. I'm curious when that will change for you.
You do what you have to in order to not get killed. It's not my fault that i was raised the way I was. However, I do know that I'm better than my parents are, at least. If I brought my boyfriend home, my dad would go into a rage and kill him. I am not exaggerating, either. He's fucking crazy. And the truth is, he only gets worse the older he gets. I've had a gun waved in my face by my dad while he was drunk, while my sister taunted him, calling him a pussy and daring him to shoot. The fact that he didn't may or may not be important, but trust me when I say that I've seen my life flash before my eyes.
Prudence is the key. What we do is our business. I've made my choice, but although my life may not be worth much, it is worth a hell of a lot more than dying at the hands of my own family. If you think I should go out in a blaze of glory just to prove I would fight for my beliefs, well, you're the one with problems, not me. That's my last word on that subject.
Actually, I've changed my mind. I can already hear the objections that some people are going to raise, so hopefully I can stop them before the shit hits the fan.
First off, you're probably thinking, "mother's instinct would save you. maybe the guy would have to be sacrificed, but who cares? It's easy enough to find another partner."
No, not happening. My mom is scared to death of my dad. When I was little, she would take any amount of verbal abuse from him, which was often forthcoming, but she swore up and down that if he ever laid a hand on her, she was gone. Fast forward about 8 years, when I was about 14, and I saw him knock her around for the first time. After it was over, I said, "Mom, you said that you would leave if he ever hit you." She just looked at me and said, "but where would I go?" Ever since then, although his verbal abuse is still much more frequent than the physical, she still takes it. I know in my heart she most likely always will. She would be no help to me, because she wouldn't want to feel the consequences of it later. Even if, by her stepping in, it would save my life, it may not save hers next time.
I'm only saying this because my gut instinct is that, if I had left my last post as it was, no one would have believed me. Understandable, given that I don't like online interactions much, and I am an intensely private person. I have said before on these boards in various ways that my parents have done this good thing or that bad thing. The truth is, no one is all evil or all good. I believe I needed to clarify that because you can still love someone and not like them. I wish my mom would leave, and I wish my dad would die sometimes when I'm angry enough. You see, nothing is all right or all wrong. I live with them because as much as it sucks to be here, it would suck even worse to be on the street. I could joke about it, saying that at least then I would never have to go to college, or at least street people are allowed to be mentally ill, but I would hate it. Most people would. But, as you can tell, this discussion just set something off in me that I couldn't just forget about. It's your choice whether you take my words at face value or not, but either way, it doesn't matter to me.
Now, about interracial relationships. My parents are certainly not the only ones who think they're vile. I think the majority of people in this country still do. With issues of illegal imigration being as ferocious as they are, I know that most people think that when white people create children with those of other races, they're basically saying it's ok to extinguish the white race, or give all our jobs to those immigrants who will work for peanuts, or any number of other things. There's a South Park episode that sheds a harsh, cold light on this very thing. In it, a bunch of people from some far-distant future come back to the current time to try to get jobs. They're a mix of all races and ethnic backgrounds, and they basically speak in a language of pig squeals. they swarm around and steal all the hard-working people's jobs. Obviously, the creators of South Park strongly believe that interracial relationships shouldn't exist, too.
Look, you all can think whatever you want about me. I'm so far beyond giving a fuck it's unreal. In my life, I think I've just about heard it all. But you can't just dismiss what I'm saying, either. Well, you could, but you would be fools. There is merit in what I'm saying. My parents obviously are not still the only people alive who hold these views. I have one more card in my hand, so to speak, but I'll wait. I'll hold it until I see what happens next.
And you don't think we should educate people so that stuff like this doesn't happen? You don't think maybe we should try to fix it so that kids don't have to worry about going through what you did?
exactly right, Cody. not just that, SS, but you think that sitting in a corner, and trying to justify your actions by saying you're a private person, and that, since there are hateful people in the world who are against interracial relationships, you're being progressive in your outlook?
let me clue you in on something. just as you claim to think your parents and others who share their view, are hurting society, so are you, just as much, if not more, than they are.
you, like them, are saying, "let's sweep this under the rug as much as possible, cause fighting for what I believe in, and who I love, isn't something I'm willing to do. being quiet, and living under the guise of being a private person, is much better than loving my boyfriend freely, happily, and unashamedly."
Sure it is. I don't want to be a statistic. At least, not a murder statistic. Isn't it bad enough that I could be an unemployed blind statistic, or a passive female statistic? Do I need to add another one to the list?
Humans are just animals, and all animals have survival instincts. Those are what take over when my parents fight, and I go on autopilot, hiding until it's done. They obviously do what works for them. At the moment, I'm doing what works for me, too. You can either be a predator or you can be prey. If I fought back, I would probably lose, so I'll just burrow down and enjoy the sunlight when I can. It's a simple matter of physics.
Also, of course I don't want anyone else to go through what I went through. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. But I can't stop that from happening, as horrible as it is, either. I can't wave a magic wand and change the actions of others. I can't erase the concept of bigotry from every hate-filled heart. I can only live my own life. If there are people out there who don't hate as much as my parents do, they can lead by example, maybe. If our generation is more accepting than the last, then it stands to reason that only time will fix this, although even that's being hopeful, if you want my honest opinion.
Actually, for example, if your parents argue, it's their issues, and as long as they don't involve you you need not get in them. Which is good. I think that the point is here, is that one shall not hide in or at an interracial or homosexual relationship, just for the sake of avoiding getting hurt. I'm not saying you must go with your gay or partner of color to a place where you'll be surrounded by people who are full of hatred to the race or the homofobic, diliberitely exposing yourself to dangerously getting hurt or killed. . Hence, I'm saying that inspite of your race or sexual orientation, it's important to be who you are, weather people like it or not. You and I can get run over by a car, get shot or killed in any other form regardless of our personalitty or sexual orientation, and for no apparent reason. It is your choice, weather you decide to keep it private or go around being gay/lesbian or with a white chick unashamedly. Nonetheless, getting hurt is no excuse to hide these things, not an excuse to hide in the closet either, period.
Then SS,you're a coward, and I would appreciate if you stayed out of the way while braver people than you made a difference in this world. Thank you.
I forgot to add, that if a female is passive, it is her reputation, and if not invulving us, it's not one's business. Sometimes we tend to purposely or by mistake, I don't know, catagorize people by what we "see", and not on facts themselves. And that's so not fair. So how reliable are statistics? I don't know
Cody: this is where we seem to disagree.
I have no issue with gay couples holding hands or whatever they might do. Where I have the problem is with them having to get hurt over being silly because they will not exercise prudent.
Before the gay issue women always kissed, held hands, walked down the street wrapped in each other’s arms, it was sisterly. In some places even men could and do sit together, hold hands, even kiss on the cheek.
It was not perceived they were gay at all, and that could have been furthers from the truth. The reason it wasn’t perceived they were gay, is because they didn’t have a sign on them, a megaphone announcing the fact, they just quietly did what they did gay or not.
As a man that likes women, I just quietly enjoy females, I don’t post a sign, or anything as well.
Why get killed over this issue when you can go about your life, fight for your rights, and such things in a safe manner? Why do you have to jump in people face that hate it and insight them to violence?
Sure, when you are protesting, or doing a march or something this will happen, but in your day to day life, why get hurt?
As a gay person I’d just not do it.
Now the other poster, I think you are correct, but here is what you have to do if you wish to enjoy your life. You have to move. If you feel like your parents would hurt you, then you have to move your life someplace else. After you do that you can say what you please. In your case it doesn’t make sense to get hurt over something you really could do without harm.
You also need to choose a man strong enough to help you. I’m sorry, but your boyfriend should be able to make a difference, or together you should be able to do this. If not you both are not standing up for each other, so I’d have to take a look at that and how much he cares.
I also have to agree that many people still are not accepting of these types of relationships. I have even experienced couples of different races dating each other, but not liking the race of the person they are dating, and that is strange.
I personally know of 2 women that have children by the men, and they are prejudice against the other race. The teach there children that they are the mothers race and not the other believe it or not. It is wild, but a fact.
I can deal with anyone’s beliefs as I posted, but prejudice is not one of them. If I dated a women that didn’t like a race of people because they were a specific race we’d not get along.
I'd not call you a coward, that is not the term for you. I'd just say you have to do something about your situation even if you must live poor, and that your boyfriend should help you. If he is not willing to help you you'll need to decide.
I do understand where you are now, and why, but you'll need to fix it.
There is something that I often say in these situations. Not everyone is designed to be a warrior, and sometimes it's just as honorable not to trade shots as it is to look down the barrel of your enemy's gun and laugh. Bravery comes in many forms. Not that I'm claiming to be brave, far from it. I just think that some of you need to be reminded that there's more than one type of person in this world, and just because I'm not you, I'm not a bad person.
Thank you Dolce, for getting where I'm coming from. Let me tell you a story. It's not just my parents who are this way, not by a long shot, especially in the area I live in. When my sister used to work at Arby's, there was another employee who worked with her who happened to be black. She told me that lots of people would refuse to let him serve them, and one person had the audacity to say they would never take food from a n*****. There was a kid I went to school with, when I was attending the local public school, who often found himself getting beaten up and called names for being black. And, if any of you guys have ever seen those documentary shows about the Amish mafia, which, incidentally, took place not too awful far from where I live, you'll know about the black guy who was adopted into the Amish community. You'll also know that he was the target of much ridicule, and that he was even raped and abused by certain members of the community. Would you all like more examples? Because I can give plenty more.
In short, this is not an isolated problem. I may be a coward, but I'm not stupid enough to take on a whole bunch of closed-minded, bullheaded assholes alone.
now, in Philly, where my boyfriend lives, things are different. People might resent you, or give you dirty looks when you walk down the street together, but unless you're in the wrong place at night, you'll probably be ok. That's true of city life in general, though. My whole point is that, if you live a taboo lifestyle, your lifespan is probably a lot shorter. That's reality. you all go on and keep your pipe dreams about changing the world. I'll survive. I've accepted that, but what I cannot, and will not, accept is that my life should be cut short by the people who should have been protecting me, not that they ever even tried.
Again, I agree, but again, you'll need to move?
You and your boyfriend should talk about helping you.
Why would you want to live an empty life hiding all the time? Why are you even in this relationship if you have to hide it like its a bad herpies outbreak?
I think Coddy's just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point, honestly. Now, how else are you supposed to point this out? Bull headed people just don't understand some things, so why not just move on.
Cody.
no, I don't believe Cody is simply arguing for the sake of arguing. I believe, as I can also say for myself, that he's trying to prove a point. being a coward does nothing for the betterment of oneself, or society.
sure, SS can live whatever life she chooses, and call her "relationship "whatever she wants, just as we, too, can express our distaste about it.
I will say this, though, Wayne is right. if your boyfriend cares about you so much, SS, he'd do everything in his power to make sure you could live a better life.
oh, and, feel free to spout all the examples you want. nothing will change my mind about how I view what you're doing. life is unfair, and sometimes undesirable things happen, but if we truly want something different, it's possible to see it through.
yeah, I think you're right.
At Forereel, well, at the moment we're discussing that. We're trying to decide if maybe we should go to one of the NFB training centers. now, don't fall over. I've made my feelings about those places very clear on other topics, and I still don't feel any better about it now. But it would be the lesser of two evils, honestly. and, if we can get through that, if we can get through the humiliation of spending the better part of 9 months blindfolded, being told that we have to be great in order to be anything, and maybe even take something useful out of all of that...I think we could get through anything together. he agrees. the only thing is, I've heard a lot of good things about the Louisiana Center's staff, but that's the deep south. I can't imagine that an interracial couple would be welcome in that kind of small town environment. As I understand it, ruston, where the center is located, may very well be a quaint little town where the locals all know each other and nothing new is tolerated. I probably should point out that he's visually impaired as well, which is why this scenario is possible. He has quite a bit of usable vision, but still. That's also why he can't just hop in a car and bail me out of here. If he could, he would have a long time ago. he has his own place, but the rent isn't too bad since the apartment is on his grandmother's property. His family are not comfortable with the idea of us dating either, although as long as the idea isn't thrust in their face, they don't talk about it. he says that over time they may come around. That's more than I can say for my family. But you see, that's the difference between country and city environments. Out here in the country, people think that they can get away with anything, basically. They have no reason to change. Anyway, that should explain why we don't live together at this point. It's not like we have any help from either side.
Well as to the original topic my answer would be a definite yes. I don't have any kids but if I did and one of them came up to me and told me he or she was gay that would only reaffirm my already firm support of gay rights. I think the most outrageous example of homosexual intolerance I ever saw was brought to my attention by a friend of mine on Facebook. She commented on a post by the owner of a Woccan community page, The Domestic Witch I think it was called. The owner of tis page had recently received an email from a mother who disapproved of homosexuality on religious grounds. Se was so desperate to "cure" her gay son that she begged the owner of this page to give her a spell or a potion to cure her son's gayness. She kept going on about how she couldn't love the abomination that her son had become. The irony that she was seeking to erase one sin with something that according to her creed would be considered just as if not more sinful did not escape me.
Well, Louisiana, will be a good place for you to start learning to live as an interracial couple, however.
You can't actually live together there unmarried can you?
Now you have 2 issues, sex and interracial. I honestly have a host of questions, so maybe I'll start another board topic so we can discuss it and it alone. This topic we've messed it up.
Ryan, I like Cody's debates.
I'll start the other topic. Please post to it, because I want to know some things and hear some opinions on it. Maybe through that topic you and your boyfriend can find out if you are honestly ready to deal in general.
Cody has better things to do with his time than to simply argue for the sake of doing it. Just because others can't come up with cojent ideas and express them well enough to be passable as an argument, does not mean that those of us who can are only doing it to hear ourselves speak.
I asked an honest question, why would you want to live a life like that? Clearly you don't because you're moving out. So I ask you, why should others not be allowed to take steps to free themselves of oppression? What makes you so much better than they that you are allowed to move out from under your parents, but they are not allowed to express their love for each other in public?
Wow, did I really say that? I sure hope I didn't, because that's not what I meant at all. This all started because I was agreeing with a point that was raised. That point was that you have to be careful who you tell of your alternative lifestyle choices, whatever those may be.
For example, as I said, walking through the city in broad daylight with my boyfriend will get us some unfriendly looks, but probably nothing more. Walking around this area where I live at night, on the other hand, probably not a good idea. Even though we don't have a high crime rate or anything around here, we do have an extreme number of racists, and probably homophobes as well. I can't speak completely on that, having never known anyone personally from this area who was gay. But I will say that, like it or not, people do have to exercise caution in some situations. is that fair? no. Is it right? Hardly. But it's also reality. As I said, I live in reality. From a young age, I had to cope with that. I got slammed down on my face so many times that I just learned to view dirt and filth through a magnifying glass. you live a certain way long enough, you'll get to know it, inside and out. So, I say again, you go on and keep your high hopes that the world will change. Hell, think you can change it if you want. That won't make it so, though. It won't change what I and probably many others have been through. It won't change the views of the people who have put me through such things.
sorry to stray from the original topic, but SS, there is a married interracial couple who works at the Louisiana center, and they're very well liked both at the center and in the community as a whole. and, contrary to yours and other people's popular belief that the deep south is/would be horrible, I can speak firsthand to that being untrue. people are very friendly, there, again, both at the center, and outside it.
clearly, you aren't getting the point, SS. you won't necessarily be able to change others views, especially not with the ignorant attitude you have, and your unwillingness to be proud of being with your boyfriend, no matter who you're around or where you are. however, as was said, you do have the ability to change your attitude, either by moving out, or finding another way to work on yourself.
I think you're totally wrong that people should be careful of where/how they express themselves, and as Cody said, I'm glad that, if you're unwilling to adopt another way of thinking, you'll leave it to those of us who wouldn't even dream of having the view you do regarding interracial relationships. cause, guess what? although you likely won't believe it, I, too, grew up around biggotted people who didn't think they were right.
I am getting the point, but I don't believe you are. Some of us would rather not risk our lives if we don't have to. If you want to, that's fine. That's your ass on the line, not mine. However, some of us might think there's more to life, like, you know, being around to be with the one you love. Yeah, sometimes that's important.
But, since you clearly don't see that angle of it, let's try a different tactic. Suppose I have a job. Suppose that I'm doing well in this job, my fellow employees like me, I'm just about to get a raise...
then, my boyfriend casually walks in, maybe to surprise me, maybe to pick me up after a long day, whatever. My boss may not know we're a couple if we don't show any sign of affection as we're leaving, but they're sure going to be suspicious. Now, let's suppose my boss is one of those bigoted people. What do you think is going to happen to my job? If they didn't find some bullshit reason to fire me, which could happen to me even as a blind person, I'm at the very least going to end up being treated like shit.
So, sometimes discretion is actually necessary. I would say the same thing about a gay couple, to try to steer this back on topic a bit. Discretion does not necessarily mean you hide it. Just because I have no choice but to hide my relationship with certain people doesn't even mean I'm ashamed of it. It just means I'm looking out for my present and future prospects. Now, granted, I don't have many right now, but caring about one's future should at least be something to be proud of, wouldn't you agree? Because the ADA is a crock of shit, and so are other forms of protection against discrimination.
To address what you said about the center in Ruston, I can check on that. Not that I don't believe you, but I certainly can ask other people about it. I hope you're right. I would prefer to go to that center over the one in olorado, because I've always lived in a quieter environment, which suits me better. Well, I did live in Philly for awhile, and will probably live there again, but I think my training would probably be more effective in an environment that closely resembles where I'm at now.
OK there is absolutely no excuse for calling someone a coward no matter your opinion.
I suggest some of you read the posts and not respond for a while if you have such bad tempers; absolutely no excuse for that blatent attack.
And btw, speking of opinions, everyone is entitled to them whether you agree with them or not.
Some people have had much more of a terrible life than you have, so for crying out loud, think before you post.(i'm looking at you especially Cody).
They don't give a fuck. Period.
They don't give a fuck. Period.
No, I don't give a fuck. The poster was being cowardly, I called them a coward. Simple as that. I don't need an excuse for it, I have a reason.
Now granted, I don't know what part of the country you live in, but I highly doubt that if you go out at night you're going to get beaten down or anything like that, even if you were making out with your boyfriend in public. Your family might, but that is a rare instance. Unless you live in some backwater of alabama or something, where the klan is still active, I doubt anyone is going to care. I don't think you live in reality at all, reality is in 2013, not 1854 after the dred scott case.
Reality also has history, which we can look at to point out how you're wrong that people's views will change. A hundred years ago black and white people weren't allowed to drink out of the same water fountains, now we have a black person in the white house and he can drink from whatever water fountain he wants. A hundred years ago we had prayer in school, now if you honestly fight to have prayers put back in school, the vast majority of people call you a fundamentalist, even christians do that.
People's views change if someone is willing to go out and lose a little skin. Yes, it sucks. I live only two blocks from a square where dozens of black people were beaten unconscious. I live four blocks from the only place in America where Martin Luther King was arrested. There is a pool here in town where the owner threw acid in the water to keep black people from swimming. But that was back in 1964. Today no one cares. I think you're blowing it out of proportion, but you still need to try to make a difference. If you don't, then what purpose do you serve?
you're exactly right, Cody.
and, no, SS, it isn't necessarily about risking one's life, as you seem to think. it's about making a difference for yourself, the one you supposedly love, and those in the future, which, clearly, you aren't willing to do.
also, I was a student at the Louisiana center, so I oughta know what I'm talking about, regarding the married interracial couple who works there.
Wow. I guess some are purposfully blind to certain things, and ignore the most obvious risk factors that were blatently said with the clearest of emphasis. If you didn't understand the situation that she explained and how dangerous it is, you are a fucking idiot. I could care less, go ahead and rip me a new one. I am beyond disgusted with you two.
Pardon me, I should have worded it to be more fitting. I meant to say you are foolish to do something that you know could get you killed.
So here is what you are saying. You are dating a person who has a different ethnicity from you and your family. Knowing well that your family has issues, you decide hmmm. Why don't you come on over and have some lunch with my family and I. Now, keeping in mind that one of your parents has the capacity to seriously hurt, and maybe kill your spouse, that wouldn't cross your mind as a bad thing? You would be willing to put that person in harm's way just to show that you care about them, and that you have a point to prove?
Let me tell you something harsh yet true. A parent like that wouldn't give a damn what your reasoning is. Because of whatever discriminatory thought process they have instilled in their mind, nothing you say is guaranteed to stop them from exploding and something bad from happening.
Hopefully, that will get through those thick skulls and wake you up.
I’ll stick with this board and not post a new one.
I do understand her fears as to living with her parents. I’d not suggest she buck them while she lives under their roof.
However, I strongly suggest she move, no matter what it takes.
If you are of age, and I assume you are, you have a choice.
If you want to date a black man, you have that choice in America and can do it.
As to your job, I’m sorry, but you’ll not get fired for liking, dating, or showing affection to a black man. If you do, it isn’t the plaice you’d like working anyway.
Let’s take it a step further. I’m talking gay or whatever as well. Suppose you decide to marry this man, how are you going to conduct a marriage with him, but can’t be seen with him around some people, because you refuse to divorce yourself from that environment?
Next, and this is my strong point, you think you love him, and you say he’s suppose to love you, how are you going to live together as a mixed couple if you both continue to listen to your families views? You may as well stop dating, and get persons of the same race, because as it stands you’ll never be together.
I also assume you both being blind, have means of income you control? I also assume you both are mentally able to learn how to live, with, or without the center for the blind assisting you?
Even if you require this center, why have you not both applied, and gone? Right there you have done exactly as I suggested, moved, and you both never ever have to return to the place you now live if you desire after your training.
While you train you can also decide to live someplace else?
If he loves you as he says he does, and you love him where is your sacrifice? I personally don’t see this as one, but how come he hasn’t said, “Okay, you need to move away from these people, so let us plan and let us move you?
How often do you really see him, due to where you live and all? That is one of my questions.
I am not being difficult, but I’m truly interested how you can conduct a relationship that is so difficult to conduct as you are now. You never see him, so haven’t tested this love. Right now it is a thought?
If you have, and this is your man, you’ll share his sweat, sleep with him, share his spit, and have his sperm inside you, maybe causing you to have his black child, because you can’t guarantee how dark the child will be when it is born. It might not look white at all.
Are you not going to take your baby to see its grandparents? If you don’t, are you going to be shamed to cuddle your child, breast feed it, and such things required in public?
How about that job, are you going to not say “well my son or daughter is doing this or that and show his her pictures to your coworkers?
See my point?
You can’t have a mixed race relationship and not live it. If you do, it won’t work. It can’t work.
Get a white boyfriend.
Think about what I’ve written, and please answer some of my questions, so I understand and maybe can cause you to think differently through this debate.
Maybe you and your “friend” can really have a relationship that is a plus and a joy to you both. Right now it is a struggle, and no relationship will last as such.
Chelsea may have a point here.
I will openly, if properly ashamedly, admit to northern against southern bigotry. Yes, I saw a situation in Georgia when passing through on business where a black man was called the n word by people working for him.
But honestly I think many of us living up here, away from the racial challenges that seem to prevail more in the south, tend to judge people of southern origin way too harshly. Who's to say we wouldn't do much different, or aren't really much different? I worked in the Immigration service in the 1980s out here in Oregon, and while now they say Latino is the new black, yes, even then all Latinos were seen to be migrants, people asked stupid inane questions about them taking showers and things just like you see some wannabe skinhead gangster punks on here talk that way about the blind.
We of norther descent are wrong on this issue, in particular those of us of West Coast origin, I believe. Much of the racial equality movement came right out of the south, it wasn't brought to the south by us northern people.
Now, I personally may not want to live there, or be told I can't buy beer on Sundays before 1 PM, or hard liquor on Sundays at all, but that is why America is more of a federation of states.
It's much like the misperception people have of Oregon being a bunch of nature lovers and tree huggers. We export more lumber than anyone else in the States except maybe North Carolina on account of the smoky mountains. As to guns, we actually have pretty lenient gun laws, not like our neighbor to the south. And we have a very consistent hunting population who through their efforts keep game under control and keep the environment clean through their payment for tags.
I learned about our misperceptions by moving to Florida for a few years. Granted it was culture shock for me, and granted I will say some of the sexism and overt racist attitudes some of you run into seem to me things I would have expected from my grandfather's generation. However, as Shattered Sanity / Green turtle pointed out, this is more of a rural versus urban issue. Country people on the whole are more conservative, take fewer risks and also maintain more provincial attitudes than us city types, mainly because they don't get that part of themselves exercised much. That part of their brain or whatever is doing couch potato duty more than anything else: I doubt it's really deliberate.
But yes for your safety you do need to get out of there. These types of volatile situations are why I wouldn't live in the country, at least I would not do so unarmed.
It's the combination of the provincial type attitudes and the sort of lull into a false sense of security (which we don't have in the city, aka frequent drive by shootings and the like) which can dampen your senses and make you less situationally aware. Every human being bar none wants to protect what's theirs. It's just the way that gets done in the country and the way it gets done in cities is different.
Ryan, if you read my posts clearly, instead of selectively taking what you want from them, you'd see that I've strongly advocated that GT find a way to get out of her situation. I never denyed her claims, said she was full of shit for making such claims, or anything of that nature. I simply said that one way or another, attempting to make a difference, whether just for her own life, or society as a whole, is key.
even though I'm sure you won't care about my response, I'll answer the question you posed.
in regards to her taking her boyfriend to spend time with her parents, yes, I do encourage that.
once she has moved out, the least she could do is sit them down with him also present, and say, "look, either you accept him into the family since he's part of me, or you have nothing to do with either of us. cause, by denying him, you're in turn denying my rights."
I'm not saying anyone should act friendly towards one another, make an entire night of their time together, or even visit regularly, but rather, that if no one ever expresses themselves, attitudes certainly won't be challenged, and no one will come away knowing they at least did what they could.
this is also something I've been through. I knew that when I moved out of my biological mom's house and into my own place, when I confronted her family, I knew they'd likely get physical with me. therefore, I took necessary precautions, in order to make sure my bases were covered to the best extent possible. my safety is always most important, and this was no exception.
so, I'm not advocating something that I myself wouldn't do, or haven't done. I'm being a strong advocate cause I know what it's like to live an undesirable life, and eventually come to the realization that a better one is definitely attainable.
yes, you have to fight for it, but nothing in life comes easy. however, it's worth it, if you can say you now live the life you've wanted.
that doesn't mean you've changed attitudes along the way, but that you did what was/is best for yourself. that's all there is to it.
Exactly. I never once said you have to exaserbate the situation, I said fight against it. Cut your parents off from you entirely. They do not accept you, thus do not accept them. Its that simple.
And before you get all huffy with me. I've done this, I know how hard it is to do. I know its tragic. I don't care. Do it, or suffer theconsequences of not doing it. That is the choice you have to make.
Ok, I've held back from posting to this topic because I wanted to clearly and constructively share my views. I think this is a touchy topic where both sides warrant some understanding.
SS, (You've changed your Username but for the purposes of this board and less confusion), you've obviously lived in a state of opression from the very beginning of your life. That's very unfortunate, and frankly, very dangerous. But there comes a time in one's life when one has to really think for themselves and separate themselves from something that's clearly wrong, even if he or she grew up knowing it as a state of normalcy. You've begun doing that, but I'd wager that you need to make a 360 on your attitude to take it all the way.
Honestly, the last scenario you've come up with, where you'd be discrete with your partner because of a biggotted boss
is sad. I say this because, why in the hell would you want to work somewhere where you have to hide even the most straight-forward aspects of your life at work. I'm not saying you should have sex with your black boyfriend on your office desk, but for goodness sake, people are allowed to have a spouse or a boyfriend. People are allowed to have them visit at work. Why should you work to exclude yourself from that just because someone might give you the stink eye for it. I understand that a person needs money and it's practical to keep a job if you have one. But for goodness sake, would you want to be persecuted for sharing a life with someone by a stranger who pays you to do a job? Personally, I wouldn't give a rat's ass about what my boss thinks of me. I'm there to do a job, and as long as I'm doing it well, it's none of his concern who i'm sleeping with. I'm not going to hide like I've committed a crime just because he might have some backward views about it. It's not fair to me or my partner. If the boss would give me shit about it and he's stupid enough to make it obvious that the reason he wants to be rid of me is because I'm in an interracial relationship, the law is on my side. say what you want, but you'd win a law suit if you wanted to just on the basis of discrimination.
But even so, why the hell would you want to work somewhere where your not welcome. Because, let's face it. A life partner is a huge part of you, if your relationship is a good one. So if someone can't accept that you're with a person of a different race even when they're not interfering with your work, why put yourself through that kind of bullshit.
Similarly, why allow your family to oppress you the way they've been doing. You've clearly taken a lot of shit from them: your father seems unreasonable and violent from your description of him: Yes, I'm sure you've had some good times with him I'm sure he's done some nice things for you. But this sort of thing that you explained on this board is totally unjustifiable. It's not normal, not healthy for a man's own daughter to be afriad of being killed because of an interracial relationship. Not in america, not in the twenty first century. People ahve worked their asses off to ensure you your rights. use them, and stop defending him by saying that not everyone's all good or all bad. That's true, but sometimes people act in an inexcuseable way, ad by making excuses for them, you enable them to do it further. Your mother seems like the classic battered woman who's lost enough control that she's on his side no matter what. I understand how tough it might be to leave your family behind, but just because your parents raised you, you dont' owe them your life. Don't be like your mother: Stand up for your self and take back your life. Have the cops come around and help you if you need them. But don't think that you need to take crap like that from your own family just because you've done so for years. If you do, you're no different from your mother. if they are too backwards to accept or at least tollerate your life choices, why the hell would you want to give them the benefit of being associated with you now and in the future.
I am a mother of a one year old, and even now, though it hurts to know that I'll have to draw back as a mother when he's an adult, I'm aware that he's his own person ultimately. That's why I'll support whatever life choices he decides to make. obviously, if he decides to kill a hundred people for a stupid, biggotted reason, I'll have to distance myself from him simply because he's violent and I'm in danger. But if he chooses to be in a poligamous relationship or if he chooses to become a clown, though I personally wouldnt' want to be involved in either scenario myself, I'd have to tollerate his life choices, and accept them as his own.
If your parents are as extreme as you say they are, I'd leave and I'd separate myself from them, no matter how hard that might be emotionally, and I'm not one to advocate for withdrawal from a family in most circumstances. Sometimes, however, if your own family is unreasonable, you have to choose your family, live your life, and hope that maybe one day your loved ones might come to their senses to some degree.
Wayne, finally, you've said somethings that make a ton of sense to me. thank you. I agree.
Life has no short distances, if you want to things for y9urself. Everything has a price, but in the end, I think being in charged of one's life is important, for noone else will do it. I've broken ties with my family, yet I'm living the life I've deserved, the life I've always needed and wanted. But guess what? It hasn't been easy. So really, it all depends on how stron and willing you are to defend your rights and beliefs
*yourself* *strong*
Ok. Sorry to have come across so aggressively. Perhaps I should have looked at what you were saying from another angle, and I am thankful we agree on this.
I have also had to let go of family. Not perminantly, but for an extended period of time. It was very difficult but the thing that made me keep going with that decision was that I knew it was for my well being to survive. Think of it that way.
I say this to anyone, not just GT, but if you're treated like dirt by your family, why willingly stick with them cause of that fact?
as was said, some of us have been through this very thing. was it tragic to realize people who, theoretically, should care about you, don't? yes. was it easy to be in denial? yes. was it extremely difficult to face the fact that, no matter how much you wished things would change, they wouldn't? yes. however, it was also quite liberating, once I came out on the other side and realized that no one deserved to live like that and willingly made a better life for myself.
personally, if any of my mom's biological family members (including her) tried to come around, at some point, I'd never welcome them into my life, in any copacity, ever again. not cause I'm a cold, heartless bitch, but cause I refuse to allow anyone in my corner who doesn't accept me as I am.
oh, and, for the record, like Bernadetta, for my own future children/partner, I wouldn't advocate not being a loving family unit, as I think that's what makes a family to begin with, along with stability. however, in situations like what's being discussed here, I'm a strong advocate for the person/people in question getting out, and doing what they can to make a better, healthier life for themselves and their partner, should they have one.
Forereel, I'll do my best to answer your questions. I don't think you're being unreasonable or difficult at all, you're asking a lot of straightforward and valid things.
I'll start with the income thing first. We both have SSI, and, as you know, that's not a lot, but it would work. So I'm not too worried about that aspect of it.
The main thing I wanted to explain is that I don't, in any way, shape or form, want children. Ever. I've felt that way since I was old enough to think such things. As soon as I get old enough, which I believe is in about 2 years or so, since I'm 23 now, I want to get my tubes tied. If the two of us produced a baby before that time, I would have to give the child up for adoption. Not because of their race, but because I've known for a long time that I have no business being a parent. Small children annoy me, and I don't feel that I'm mentally stable enough to raise a child and not make at least some of the mistakes my parents did.
When it comes to moving out in general, I thought I already explained this. He can't do anything to help me, or he would have. We don't have any public transportation around here, and he can't exactly take Paratransit, either. That would be way out of their limited zone. And, since he can't drive, and can't ask his family to drive him and bust me out, explain to me how he's supposed to do anything? I don't think it's right of you to imply that he doesn't love me just because we're both stuck. I can understand what you're saying to a degree, but I ask you to please refrain from making such crass assumptions in the future. You seem like a reasonable enough person, from your board posts, so I think you can do that.
As far as us being ready to move in together? i've been wrestling with that very question for a long time now. You're right, we hardly ever get to see each other. Under normal circumstances, I would never dream of moving in with someone when we barely know each other on a physical level. I could explain further why I believe it might work out, but I honestly don't have the energy at the moment. If I can find something that I wrote on another forum, I'll grab it and paste it here. For now, let me just say that you're right, for the most part.
The problem is that I don't think I'm strong enough to move out on my own. Thus how my plan for both of us to attend a training center came about. I did attend a center in Pittsburgh a couple of years ago, but all that happened was I came straight back home and lost the skills I had gained due to the restrictive environment I'm in. See, travel has always been a severe weakness of mine. I don't know cardinal directions to save my life; I can't visualize maps of places I need to go...In other words, either I attend an NFB training center, and hope that works, or I depend on someone for the rest of my life. Which do you think is more appealing? And, to answer an earlier question you posed, I don't believe you can live together in one of those centers as an unmarried couple, but that would be perfect, actually. We would be in close proximity to each other for 9 months or thereabouts, and we would most likely learn all the things we need to learn about each other that will tell us whether we can live together successfully or not. We'll go through some difficult and rigorous experiences, come up against a philosophy we don't entirely agree with, and hopefully come out on top. This is why I said if we can do that together, we can do anything.
As for the employment scenario, ok, so maybe it's unlikely. But I'm paranoid by nature, and I never expect anything good to happen to me. If something like what I described ever did happen, I would be on the receiving end of it, knowing my luck. But hopefully I would never have to deal with that. Hopefully my boss would be more understanding. Hopefully they wouldn't even ask me about it, and be professional enough to separate their employee's personal and professional selves. the only reason I'm wary is because, nowadays, you don't have any privacy from an employer. they turn Google upside down to try to search for anything incriminating, even if it was 10 years ago, that you might have said or done. And I believe that if they want to discriminate against someone that badly, they just wouldn't hire me if they saw a picture of the two of us together. That would be all well and good, and at least then I would know where I stand, and not have the rug pulled out from under me later when I truly need the money. Except, of course, that I don't have a Facebook page anymore. I got rid of it years ago, because I never posted to it anyway, and people kept removing me left and right for no reason, I guess because it was inactive. That was depressing, so I scrapped it. So, an employer could find out too late. But, as I said, I hope you're right and that scenario is pretty far out.
If I missed any of your questions, let me know and I'll do my best to answer them in more detail.
This is going to sound heartless. Nothing you said here is new. You don't have any problems that everyone else doesn't deal with on a daily basis.
We're all afraid to go into the world alone and face it. We're all afraid to get lost. We're all afraid to try something new for fear of failing. You're just like everyone else, and its up to you to get over that.
The best piece of advice I can give you is to get angry about it. Anger fuels action. Get angry at your situation. Stop making excuses. Stop giving excuses for why you do things or don't do things. Get pissed off at the world until you want to change it.
I couldn't agree more with Cody's last post. he's right, and I'll take it a step further by saying that if you don't take to heart what's being said, GT, you have no right to complain about what you've been dealt.
If I let my anger out, it would never stop. I was always taught that it was wrong to express emotions. obviously, I've failed at that miserably, but at least I'm able to channel that into writing, rather than directly expressing them to people. Any time I ever slipped up, I was either accused of being drunk or insane. So I learned to bury all my anger. If I loosened my hold on it, even just a little, who knows what would happen? I've also been told it's not dignified for a woman to feel anger. That's a man's territory. The only person who's allowed to know me inside and out is my boyfriend. I know he's worth it, because he understands me, is often on the same level as I am, and doesn't make me feel stupid or worthless for anything I feel.
There's another reason I can't move out on my own, though. I don't get very much SSI money a month, and I'm getting a small portion of my check taken away every month because they claim they overpaid me. I somehow owe them over $4000. So, although I could increase the amount of money I get per month by saying I pay bills and such, it wouldn't be over $700, and they would just take a larger portion. i think I was overpaid because when my parents originally filled out the paperwork when I was still a minor, which I had no knowledge of until years later, they were trying to get as much money from the system as they could. I'm not sure if that's because they wanted it for themselves, or because they wanted to build a college fund for me to make me go, but the point is, they obviously caught on after a few months. Now I'm caught in a vicious cycle. I would pay them all the money up front if I could. I despise being in debt. But if I came up with all that money up front, even if it were remotely possible, which it isn't, they would probably question where it came from, and then bye-bye SSI. Then what? Either way, I'm royally screwed.
This might even stop me from going through with attending a training center, now that I think about it. You have to report to them if you move, and if I go out of state, they'll stop giving me benefits anyway. Then I'll somehow have to pull a pretty big wad of cash out of my ass, so I don't know what to do.
before you make such, dare I say, paranoid assumptions, I suggest you check into them before you speak.
if you were to go to a training center in another state, you wouldn't get stripped of your SSI. you aren't getting a job; you'd be getting training. there's a major difference, there.
also, I don't think it's at all rude, or preposterious to say that your boyfriend doesn't love you if he can't find some way to help you out.
Yeah, you would still get the same SSI amount and everything. The only thing you have to do is report to Social Security of the state you go to for training and have them switch it over for you.
I meant praposterous, in my last post.
You are old enough to know that the teachings you've received about not showing anger and all that are wrong. Its time to stop making those excuses and do something about it. You either move away from the fire, or you stop complaining that its hot. Those are your only two choices. There are things you can do to help you.
Okay, now we are having a discussion and I am reasonable.
However, I can’t express my opinions and not tell you what I think, but I will explain my assumption and exactly why I believe as I do.
I will also state where I think I’m maybe not seeing exactly fairly, because we all have different lifestyles and motivation levels.
First, let’s take your question about what are you supposed to do, or your boyfriend, what can he do?
This can’t be one sided, and he’ll need your help, and also your support or willingness to follow come hell or high water.
You both, as you say, receive SSI, and you both are of age to control it. Why can’t he say, let’s find a place to live, and call the housing department in his city and start applying for low income places?
There are places called resident hotels, and you pay by the week that you both could move in to on a moment’s notice if you decided to.
With love come want, and he must want to love you, and that is why I say maybe he doesn’t really at this time, because as you pointed out yourself you don’t spend enough time together, and you also said you’d not want to move in with a person you haven’t really gotten to know, so you see, it isn’t love yet, it is like, or lust, or want of companionship, but not love.
When Forereel loves a woman he thinks about how to get his woman out of a bad situation even if he needs to buy some sleeping bags and sleep on the street with her.
He thinks that the police can get her released from her home, and from that point if need be they’ll live in the local shelter where they can receive support to get a place to live and resources they need to live.
In short, love is thinking how not saying it can’t be done. When you love somebody you are willing to do what it takes to be with them.
Okay, now you know what he can do, and how you can help him by deciding that you really want out. You are on a powerful device for researching anything you desire, so why not use that device to help yourself get free?
If you don’t want to live with him right away, take yourself to a training center, and this time do, not, come, back. Make it your goal to stay away, and tell the center that is your goal so that they can help you achieve it.
Now, here is where I’m probably unfair.
I was excited to get out on my own at the age of 18. I was so damn excited I couldn’t wait, so I started to plan how I was going to do it.
I did not have a bad home life, in fact my parents were supportive except they didn’t want me to leave home. Home was great, but I felt I was a man and I wanted to taste the world.
I also was able to take care of myself. I could cook, wash, travel, and I felt do anything else required I didn’t know about.
How did I get that way? I wanted to be able to take care of myself so learned everything I could by asking how this or that was done and trying it.
You don’t have the level of life skills I had, so that is why I say I can’t compare you, but what you do have is a mind that thinks.
In a relationship both persons have to put themselves out to help each other, or it is just talk. You can never be together, or even find out if it can work if you don’t be together.
Your next move is to apply for the training center and go. If he doesn’t come go anyway, because you will soon be able to have a place that you can say to him, come live with me and let us see how it works, or you will learn that he’s not strong enough to actually be a man yet.
Now, that sounds cold, sure, but think about this, who you choose to build your life with matters. If he’s not willing or you aren’t willing to fight for what you want who’s going to do it for you? Frankly, he cannot help you talking about it he has to do something about it, and if he doesn’t know he has to ask questions of people that do. If he is afraid to do that, then how good will he be in a live in relationship?
You also must do exactly the same, and this has to be a two way street unless one or the other of you is willing to take total care of the other.
That requires love to want to do that and the other person not even try.
I’m not talking about jobs, or anything, I’m only talking about basically living. If you both don’t try you both need to simply stay home and get taken care of, and you need to date a white man that will take you away that your parents will agree can.
Does that also sound cold? What do you think? Have I answered your questions on how?
I forgot about that picture of you and him somebody might find. You know where that picture should be found if you really love somebody? On your desk, as your screen saver on your phone, in your wallet. You are in love and this is your right hand. Do you hide your right hand?
I happen to think you are a great writer, and smart, so use these tools to move on in life.
Chelsea, please answer her question on how it is you recover from parents wrong doing as to your income? You are best to say on that.
Also, I am open to questions, so ask them. I can't because?
No, you know what? You wouldnt' even need to report to a different state for the SSI because when you go to one of these centers, you're not considered a resident of that state until you actualy decide to move there. And I believe you can't do that until you finish training, or shortly before that. You could be sure that your money wouldnt' get taken away.
And I'll say something else. I'll respectfully disagree with cody; You don't need to get angry about something to change your situation. You just need to be determined to do so. I honestly think that anger, in your case at least, would be very counter productive. I'll be disagreed with now, and I know it, but anger isn't as productive as some may think. I think it's better to become determined. To have guts you don't have to get pissed. Not necessarily. And you'll be less bitter if you don't get pissed. But think of your own self-worth. Don't you think you owe it to yourself to get your own shit together without the help of a set of parents who wouldn't approve of your lifestyle potentially? You're twenty-three years old you say, but you're frankly acting like a teenager. I'm not saying this to be rude or mean, just to wake you up to the fact that your own paranoia and your excuses galore are stopping you from taking control of your life. Depending on someone forever is not an option. If you really suck at blindness skills, then by all means, pack your stuff and get going to that training center. The state will likely pay for it; You just need to justify it. And don't go running home at the slightest feeling of inconvenience or distaste either. Get it done; Learn to cook, clean, travel, you name it--And gain some guts. And you know what? Whether you stay with that boyfriend or not, at least you'll always have that training. You have way more to gain than to lose here, so stop chickening out like a wuss and get on it. You'll thank yourself for it later.
You know what, most of what you guys are saying makes sense. It might be a little easier, because he already has his own place. I only brought up the fact that he said that his family would disapprove because this is what he told me. But he also told me that they view him as a grown man who can make his own decisions, even decisions they don't approve of. They just don't want me to be in their faces 24-7 so to speak, and that's fine. If they would eventually accept me, by getting to know me over time, I'm ok with that. The point is, I could move into his apartment tomorrow if I had the resources to do so. I mean, sure, I could call a cab, pack a suitcase full of clothes, and sneak away in the middle of the night, despite the ungodly price a cab would cost to go that far, but I don't really feel that's fair. Sighted people don't have to leave their stuff behind, so why should I? I know, how can I be worried about possessions at a time like this? But it's true. There's no reason why I should have to leave my computer, my records, or certain other things, just so I can travel light and get away. If I were sighted, I'd simply load that stuff into the trunk of my car and go, so what's the difference? It's not like I need to take any furniture or anything.
The truth is, this isn't as rash of a decision as it may seem. My boyfriend and I have known each other since we were in high school. For the first 2 years or so, when I first began attending the school for the blind I went to, we were just good friends. We always got closer the more we talked, and we have a lot in common. Eventually, we started dating, even though I knew damn well that my parents would have an aneurism over it if they ever found out. And they probably wouldn't have, since I was living at the school for the blind. However, I had a friend at the time who was insanely jealous of me. She told my parents out of spite, knowing how they would react, just because I guess she wanted to see me come crashing down to her level. Well, that, and she had an attraction to me, and even though I told her I don't swing that way, she once tried to force herself on me, but that's another story. I could have denied it when they found out. They didn't like her, and in fact wouldn't have believed her at all. But one thing I know I am is an honest person. True, I may hide things when the situation calls for it, but if I'm confronted directly about something, I won't lie about it. At first, my parents refused to speak to me for several weeks. Then, when their rage won out, they constantly told me how much they disapproved of it, and in effect, me, They also said that if I wasn't blind, they would disown me and throw me out on the street in a heartbeat. Honestly, I wish they had. Maybe, if I had had to toughen up then, I wouldn't care about leaving them now. The truth is, if I go, what's standing between my parents? My sister recently told me that she's going to move out to Montana to be with her boyfriend, this guy she met online. He's a great person, he's been here several times. So I told her to do what makes her happy. But if we both leave, what will happen to them? I'm sorry, but whatever wrong they've done, I don't want anything bad to happen to my mom. Yeah, she should have been there for me when I was growing up, but that doesn't mean she deserves what happens to her. Anyway, back to then, which was about 6 years ago. They would tell me to break up with him, say that living in the city had given me a bad attitude and made me immoral, and a lot of other things. I'm just glad they didn't know where he lives, because I would honestly fear for his safety if they did.
So, for a year and a half we tried to make it work. While we were in school, I lived in the dorm, but he didn't live too far from the school, so he went home every day. Anyone who's been to a school for the blind knows that it's more like a prison than anything. First of all, the staff do their best to discourage relationships. Then there's the fact that you're not allowed to leave the dorm for any reason without a staff person breathing down your neck, even if it was just to take a walk or something. They said they would allow visitors, but getting them to do so was like pulling teeth, especially if they knew the two people were an item. But as I said, we had something special. But even the best people crack under pressure. I guess we got sick of trying to find secluded areas of campus at the end of the day for brief makeout sessions before his bus would leave. We got tired of never seeing each other outside of school, not being able to go on dates, not being able to have a normal relationship and do the things that normal couples do. We both started seeing other people, and we lost contact for awhile after we graduated.
But I guess fate has a funny way of working things out, because we did start talking again about a year ago. Both of us had come out of some pretty bad relationships, so the idea of dating again really wasn't crossing either of our minds, especially because of how it had ended before. But as time went on, our feelings for each other grew once again. While we're not making it official until we do move in together, the way we talk to each other and things would imply that we are dating. We've discussed what happened in the past, and I think we're older and more mature now, we could make it work, and not resort to what we did in the past. See, back then, he cheated on me with his ex. But I truly believe that he learned from that and wouldn't do it again. He got burned pretty badly in the end; she ended up messing around with other girls behind his back and stuff. But the way things are now is definitely not ideal for us. would it be ideal for anyone?
I know he's the one for me, as silly as it sounds. He's the only person who doesn't think I'm weird for collecting records. He's the only person who understands me on a level that's sometimes frightening, but more often than not is reassuring. He and i think alike on so many things, from the superficial, like the fact that touch screen devices aren't all they're cracked up to be, and that it's ok to like music that isn't current, and that having an inner child in the form of still watching cartoons we grew up with isn't something to make a mockery of. On the bigger issues, things like morality and current world issues and things of that nature, most of the time, the same things outrage us, the same things speak to us, and even when we're not on the same page, we enjoy listening to each other's point of view to try to gain a better understanding. We have similar temperaments, we're both pretty reserved, and we don't open up to just anybody. We've both been there for each other through some pretty traumatic times. And yet, just because he's black and I'm white, we're supposed to hate each other. It doesn't make sense. I wish I knew why.
as to how she can recover from her parents taking her money, first of all, it's hers. as a legal adult, she has not only the right, but should be willing and eager to take control of what's hers, in this case, her money.
and, GT, before you use the excuse, "it's easier said than done," I'm not, by any means, saying it's gonna be easy. no one is. in fact, I'm sure anyone would back me up in saying that it won't. however, as is continuously being said, you can either buckle down and put a stop to all this, or not. it is, ultimately, your choice.
Bernadetta is right. at the end of the day, if you go to a training center and are willing to take all that you can from the experience, you'll have a wealth of skills, which would truly be invaluable to you, whether or not your boyfriend is/stays by your side.
All these years they've tried to break you
To your knees
Anger scours right through your veins
Now it's time to put an end
To all the lies
Now it's time to take control
Of your life
(Fear Factory, Self-bias Resistor).
GT, quite frankly, the fact you're still willing to love and accept your mom, after how she doesn't accept you, is absolutely disgusting. I'm not saying you should wish any ill will on her, at all, but nor should you continue making excuses, and act like everything is okay, when it clearly isn't.
I'm sorry to know that you've been through crap, but we all have. get over it, or, as I said, don't complain.
by saying get over it, I'm not suggesting for it to happen instantaniously, or even that you should forget about what has happened, but there should come a point when you feel enough is enough. cause, whether you wanna think about this or not, if you talk to your boyfriend the way you talk here, it's gonna eventually drag him down and likely drive a wedge between you two.
also, I meant to say in my last post that I agree with Bernadetta. anger is never a solution, but determination is.
how dumb do you think I am? The sad thing is, you'll actually answer that. Just because I can talk to him about anything doesn't mean I talk to him about everything on a daily basis. the only time I ever bring this kind of stuff up in conversation is after a particularly bad fight or something, and even then, I hate myself for it. I may come off as being completely abnormal, and maybe I am, but I do know what I have, and I don't want to screw it up. Any idiot can tell you that the quickest way to make sure you never deserve to be loved is to complain endlessly about your problems. Then again, some would say that you should never discuss your problems with anyone, and to do so is to complain, so...
Speaking of complaining, I don't think that's what I'm doing. Just because some things are common sense to you doesn't mean they are to everyone.
no, GT, I don't have to say you're dumb, but I'll say that your posts sure do demonstrate an extreme bitterness towards yourself and the world. since you don't seem to care, though, and are clearly under the impression that we're heartless, and you're willing to disregard what Cody, Bernadetta, and I say to try and help you, I won't be wasting my breath anymore, unless someone says something I see fit to comment on.
and, I'm not saying you talk to your boyfriend about your problems on a regular basis, GT. I seriously suggest you not be so emotionally invested in what's being said, try to find it within yourself to actually understand and perhaps even accept, that we really are trying to help, put all your bitterness aside, even if for just a second, and realize the world doesn't revolve around you.
we all get that you're having a tough time, but what are you gonna do to better your situation? at this rate, it looks like you'd rather bitch about your hardships, and totally disregard those who are genuinely trying/wanna help.
so, let me try, one last time, to clue you in on something. in life, if you don't know where to turn, and wanna reach out for other's assistance, you have to at least have a mind, and the guts, to actually take in what people say. you don't have to believe/agree with everything brought to the table, or even anything brought to it, but if you're gonna have the gall to reach out, it's dumb of you to not take advice from those who have been there, or known someone who has.
Oh, I don't think she is saying you are complaining, she is saying if you do it is a drag.
Now he is the exact one you should be talking to about your problems.
Your mother will be fine. She has made the exact choice you need to make, she is with her man better or worse.
Believe it or not, she is with him for a reason, or she'd leave. She stand up with him not totally out of fear as you might think, but because maybe she loves him and agrees?
Some people like to be slapped around.
I'm not saying that is the case, but it is true.
Now, you have stated something that really makes me wonder and I'll explain this. Your boyfriend has his own place. Have you asked him if he wants you their? If that answer is yes, why not try it along with getting rehab in that city to give you some local training instead of traveling bing that it is love?
You don't have to sneak anyplace. When you are ready to leave, if you feel you are in danger here is how it is done.
1. You get on your computer and locate a moving company that does packing and that will pack your things for you.
2. You call the sheriff's department and explain that you are moving on this date, but fear you will be harmed, so need them to send a staff to make sure your move goes smoothly.
3. Your boyfriend and you pay these movers to move your stuff to his place. They will allow you to ride in the truck or whatever with them. If not call a taxi service and pay for the trip.
Yes, this all cost some money, but you stop paying the bills that are not related to your moving and use that money to move.
If you feel you can't afford it, call the Salvation Army and ask them for moving support.
If you can pack yourself, do so, but still get the movers to take your stuff to your new home.
This can be done in just a few short days, because you will get paid shortly. You only need that answer.
If you have to spend all to make it happen your boyfriend can surely feed you until next month and during that time you'll go to the social security office and get your mail changed so that it comes to you. You will say you are now living at this address, and you will also talk to them about why you have an over payment while you are at it.
You will talk to the local rehab about home training, and your boyfriend can also teach you much if he is willing since he lives on his own.
Questions?
Nope. That's perfectly clear to me. Not only that, but it makes sense, and you don't have to resort to sniping and nit picking to try to one up someone like some people I could mention. It's people like you that I'll listen to, not that I expect the others to really care about all that. And yes, he does want me to move in with him. He's been trying to get me to do that for months. Not pressuring, mind you, just being concerned because of what I go through here. the only reason I was hesitating to do so is because, as I said, I wasn't sure I was ready for that. But, fair enough, it's better than where I'm at now.
You are never going to think you're ready for it. You're always going to be afraid until you do it and find that its not so bad.
And if your boyfriend is concerned about you, why don't you talk to him about this stuff? If he loves you, his only reaction will be, "Ok baby, how can I help." Why are you with the guy if you can't even talk to him?
sniping and nit picking ? How do you mean? I really want to know?
Okay, thank you for your reply. So I think it stands this way, you are holding up the train so to speak right?
Why?
I ask that because in this case I can't see fear. You say a man loves you, is on his own, and you love this man. You can't be with him like you'd like due to your families opinions.
What can you lose by moving with him?
While you are living with him wouldn't it be the perfect time to learn how to live on your own, and if it doesn't work out for whatever reasons, you can get able to live alone or with a roommate?
You can get things settled, learn about local training, because in this case I don't see why you'd travel anyplace to do it. Your boyfriend lives on his own, and I suppose due to that he knows how to manage? I'd not want to be leaving my lover for 9 months soon after we just got started. Why should he even go to a training center, he's already living on his own?
You can get your money situation settled as well, and generally live as you'd like to. No more pressure.
of course you don't feel ready, GT. it's always the initial step that's the hardest, for anyone. you just have to stop making all these excuses, stop being paranoid, take the bull by the horns, and do it, or not.
Wayne is right. I wasn't saying you were complaining. again, if you'd actually take my words to heart, you'd know that I said if you were to start complaining, no matter who it's to, it'll be a drag to him/her.
I forgot to say this in my last post, but why won't you talk to your boyfriend? that's ludachrous.
if you guys are together, claim to love each other, why wouldn't you talk to him, or wanna talk to him, for that matter? I don't get that at all, or even understand how you see that as a healthy relationship.
oh, and, yes, how are we nitpicking? some of us obviously have different ways of conveying ourselves, which is clearly what you can't handle.
Now really, which is it? First, you accuse me of complaining. then you tell me I'm not saying enough. I don't get it. But the short answer to your question is that I see things in extremes. It's like you said: if I started complaining, I would lose what I already have, and I really wouldn't want that. Maybe you won't believe this, but I don't know the difference between asking for help, or talking about something, and complaining. Since I never was really allowed to talk about things, I don't know. So first, you say I'm pushing people away, being bitter, etc. then you say I'm not complaining? I don't get it, and I'm being serious. That's why it's so rare that I express myself, even though it may not appear that way due to the direction this topic is going, and probably others in the past that I've posted to.
As for the training center thing, I was kind of thinking that. He doesn't really need to go to one. I just wanted him to go with me because I really dislike the NFB, so he could keep me honest and balanced, and vice versa if it came down to that. I certainly would not want to join that organization, or have the training make me too cocky, so I would need someone around who knows me inside and out to prevent that from happening. There's a speech that the NFB often cites when they talk about training called "The Nature of Independence." In a nutshell, it talks about how students at the training centers go through three phases. they go from being fearful to the extreme, to bold and aggressive, to hopefully finding a state of balance once they graduate. I highly resent being categorized that way, even as a potential student. Even some other NFB members I've spoken with recently didn't like the way that speech was worded. But what scares me more is that some people never come out of that aggressiveness, and I would not want that to be me. Then it's just one tiny little step to becoming my dad, honestly.
Anyway, my whole point is that it probably does make more sense to live with my boyfriend. I mean, sure, I hope it works out, I want it to work out, and I honestly think it could. But nothing is ever fully guaranteed. And if, for whatever reason it doesn't, it's not like I could come crawling back to my parents, not that I would want to.
That's the matter, gt. Unfortunately you can't differentiate those three factors. And thus, I can conclude you don't know how to ask for help, I don't think it's not because you don't want to, but because you lack in courage. If you called your boyfriend up all the time and discussed your problems, expecting him to bring forth solutions would be a form of complaint. Hence, you can't expect anyone to help you if you can't help yourself. Yes it's hard, yes it does require a great deal of strenkth to take good decisions for yourself, but that's what independence is all about. If you decide not to communicate to him or anyone for that matter, not only the issues but also the steps you wish to take to solve them, and you're unwilling to ask for some form of help/assistance knowing you need it; well then you'll remain trapped for the rest of your life. And that too, was your choice. And guess what? If he sees you don't take charge of yourself, he won't want to take the whole responsabillitty. Good comunication is escential in a healthy relationship. While nothing is fully guarantied, it's no reasons to not take risky steps for yourself. Because if you fall and can't help yourself up, then you won't learn from your mistakes and grow, and thus, you'll end up repeting the same mistakes over and over again. . Noone is telling you what you need to do and when to do what you need to do for yourself. So when you feel ready, hopefully it's not too late, aquire independence of mind, strenkth and courage, and move on with your life, for noone will be around you all the time to help you live it. Also, that requires you to sepparate yourself emmotionally from those who hurt you, unwelcoming them into your life that yeu yourself lead.
by refusing to take to heart what's being said, and demonstrating that you're unwilling to actually do something to change your situation, that's complaining. it'd be different if you were sharing cause you actually wanted help, or even if you were venting, but you're claiming you want help, then, when it's given to you by some of us, you lash out, turning deaf ears, since it isn't what you wanna hear.
GT, if you can't keep yourself from getting into something you don't wanna be part of, in this case, the NFB's philosophy, you have no business hoping or wanting someone else to come to your aid with that. either you're strong enough to deal with it on your own, or you aren't. however, if you aren't, why even waste yours and others time by attending a center? if you already know you're gonna find it impossible to resist buying into their philosophy, it's my opinion that if you go, you're gonna be royally pissed off and let things get to you, which will interfere with you getting anything positive from the experience.
One amendment to what Cody said about anger fueling action.
Get angry, perhaps, but don't lose your head. I learned early that he who keeps a level head usually wins the fight, and I had my first real fight at 7. So yes, it will anger you what's been going on, and even if you are a slow boil like me, a boil is a boil nonetheless. The trick is to harness that energy, keep your head, and GET OUT!
I look at it like when you're trying to teach someone blind or sighted how to properly throw a punch. There's a lot of flailers and flappers out there, expending a lot of energy and maybe doing a bit of damage in the process, but not nearly as much as when you have an objective, aim, and give it all you got.
So if a training center would give you 9 months out, and I have learned enough now about these center being on here to know they're not like the drug cult rehab places where you're locked up, you could use that 9 months of thinking to plan to never move back. Maybe leave your stuff behind.
Battered women leave their stuff behind all the time when they leave. Someone I know left a lot of things behind in a nation where he was a political criminal, and went somewhere else on assignment from there, and ultimately came here on political asylum. He was pissed as hell but methodical enough to meet his mission objective: to get out.
Remember keep it that simple no matter whose fancy fuzzy words you got coming your way.
So go ahead and get mad, but one of life's greatest treasures is a mind like a steel trap.
Good point, I should have made that clear. Be angry, but don't be out of control.
Perhaps this is a little off topic but I'll try to explain why I am asking you these two questions gt.
First, it seems as though you want all of these things. You want to move in with your boyfriend. You want to attend a center. You want to get out of the situation you are in now. So have you prioritized what is most important to you, and drilled in to your head why, why, why do I want these things? I feel if you have a focus, and you know how you want to tackle these problems relentlessly, you will be more successful. And if you remember what you know is best for yourself you will be happier in the end.
Now, the second question is more off topic. You do not have to feel inclined to answer this on here, but think about it. Why is it that you are in this relationship? I'll go out on a limb and assume, one of the few times I ever do. But it seems like you are in it because it makes you feel happier to be with someone. However I could be wrong because I don't know the guy, and I don't know the specifics of the relationship. Nor do i need to. But it is seriously something to think about before you make it final that you deffinetly want to move in with this guy and take things farther.
To answer your first question, I don't know what I want. No one else seems to believe that, but it's really that simple. I wouldn't move in with him under these circumstances, not without being able to see him on a daily basis for a few more months, at least, just to figure out if what we have is the same as it always was. The only reason I feel that might be a good option is because I know he loves me, and it could work in the future. Attending a training center was how I brought these two objectives together. By both of us going, we would get that sense of whether we could withstand anything together. It was the only way I could think of to achieve this. Getting out of my house is just a broad goal, but with no clear sense of what's right or wrong, or what I should or shouldn't do, I don't have anything to really focus on.
As a side note, the only reason I was taking issue with the way several people were presenting their points is that it's really not necessary to take shots at me just because they can. I'm not rejecting any advice, I'm just saying that statements that imply that I'm deliberately trying to be a complete asshole are counterproductive. Of course I'm going to respond to those things, it's human nature to defend one's dignity. Don't you think it's been ground into the dirt enough by me trying to ask for help? Don't you think that maybe, just maybe, just because one person's temperament is a certain way, it doesn't mean mine is? And why should I be spit on and condescended to for that? Really, I want to know. Do you think that a person is goaded into action by being talked down to? maybe some people are, but not me.
Anyway, to get back to the point, I wouldn't say that I'm with this guy because I need to be in a relationship. It's easier to not be in one, because you never have to worry about saying the wrong thing that will send the person running for the hills. Obviously, I make the average person uncomfortable, judging by some of the responses I've gotten here. I do think he's the right one for me because he hasn't run for the hills in all the years I've known him. We know everything about each other, the good, the bad and the ugly. He's the only person I'd ever allow to get that close to me. I've given others pieces of my heart over the years, and have had those pieces shattered. But he was always there to defend me and to keep me from going over the edge.
You're not 5 or 6 years old, no baby talk you're an adult who should know what she wants, and if you ask for help and you don't like the responce, tTake the bits, if any that work for you, or go to a tharapist who'll tell you things you wanna hear, or, find people who are in your same situation, with your same state of mind, or, live your life and don't have others waste their time trying to help you if you won't take anything to heart. Good luck
it's all in your perception, GT, so, no, I don't think anything that has been said here shows that you're being talked down to.
if being told that you're acting like a teenager, that you don't seem to be in a relationship for the right reasons, that you can't make/stick to your own decisions, that you're bitter, and, by the looks of things, unwilling to make a better life for yourself, hurts your feelings, those things show that you can't handle the truth. cause, believe it or not, everything I mentioned, is quite important to examine/know. especially if your goal is to move out.
it doesn't seem like you know your "boyfriend" as well as you claim, and let me tell you, moving in with him out of desperation, isn't good, either.
you've said you don't see each other much, which is what I'm basing my opinion on.
so, although you clearly won't admit it, I do think you're in a relationship cause it makes you happy/fulfilled to know that, at least in your mind, someone will be your savior.
if you go to the NFB training center, for instance, you'll be comforted, in your mind, by the fact that your "boyfriend" would be there to make sure you don't fall into any unwanted pitholes.
let me tell you something. it's beyond idiotic to think that way. as has been said, if you can't help yourself, and, especially if you don't even know yourself in any copacity, what you want, ETC, it's damn near impossible for others to do so.
I pointed out that maybe your relationship wasn’t as it seems, and so have to agree with the ladies.
I have also explained that in a discussion I can’t say what you want to hear or I’ll not be telling you what I think.
I think hopefully this board will be a good thing for you.
Now as to the training center, you are asking someone to go to this things with you mostly for protection. He doesn’t need it, so why should he go?
Now if he’s going for himself, or he decides to go to support you, that is good, but you shouldn’t expect it especially as you don’t want to accept his offer to live with him because you need to see him on a daily bases to decide?
Let me try to explain what I mean.
You are hungry, and I’ve got an apple and offer it to you. You want my apple, but you say to me, well, before I eat your apple I want your promise that you will meet me daily for a week before I decide your perfectly good apple is actually good enough for me.
If you really need to decide, it is you, not him that requires some time. There is nothing wrong with that, but you can’t expect a man to be dragged cross country while you make up your mind. What if you decide, nope, he’s just not for me?
You should do your thinking and you’re deciding on your own. If you really want to see him on a daily bases you’ll have to help make that happen. He can’t do it for you unless he’s got plenty of money and is willing to rent a place for you, drag you to it and make you stay there. See my point?
He can’t arrive at your door and say, okay let’s go. You have to agree?
As to the NFB’s philosophy they don’t brain wash people? You have to agree it is right for you.
If you don’t think you are mentally strong enough to hear something, and then decide how to apply it to your life, why go to someplace like that?
I am not saying it is the NFB’s fault, but yours if you apply what they say negatively in your life. Get local training that is without opinions, sort of, because any training will have these.
If I come to your house and teach you how to wash your clothes, I’m going to be teaching you my opinion on the best way I feel to wash.
A person has to apply what they are given to themselves as it relates to how they want to live, or keep things.
I think a blind person should mop a floor on hands and knees, but others say, nope, I’m not getting on my hands and knees I can get my floor just as clean with a mop, or I don’t care if my floor is that clean, I’m not getting down like that, I’m using a mop.
We both are happy because we know how to clean a floor, we just have a different method.
I hope you think about all you have been given here.
Peace.
What is wrong with you people?
Just because I didn't jump up the next day and say, "hey, I'll go running off and do exactly what you say!" doesn't mean I'm rejecting anything. Have you ever heard of thinking things through? I'm not an impulsive person. Sometimes I wish I was, but that's not how it works. I overanalyze everything, because I know that if I jump into something, it will fail. If I can't think of every possible thing that could go wrong, I'm not ready to do it.
So you're basically saying that everyone should live with someone they just met? now, our circumstances are a bit different than that. Read post 104 again. Read it several times, if you have to. Obviously what I said in that post really went over everyone's heads. What I'm saying is that it probably would work out for us, but in normal circumstances, people get that chance to discover whether or not it's right to move in with someone. Why shouldn't I? What is so wrong about that?
Oh, and not knowing what you want is restricted to childhood now? That is by far the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I'm completely speechless about that one. So is the fact that therapists are hired to tell people what they want to hear. They wouldn't be doing their job if that was the case, would they? If a therapist told a child molester, "gee, well, you're perfectly right, so keep fucking babies" wouldn't they get fired? I would hope so. Nice job making yourself look like a complete idiot there, Dolce.
I won't be responding to this topic anymore. It's obvious that admitting my flaws and weaknesses draws some of you like flies to a pile of shit, or sharks to blood. Some of what was said was legitimate, and I never said it wasn't. In particular, I want to say thank you to forereel. For the most part he gave clear, concise, sensible advice. That I can follow. The constant insinuations about my being on the verge of being thrown in a mental institution are what I have a problem with. So the rest of you, with a few exceptions, can take your bullshit and shove it. I've had enough.
you should take your own advice, GT, and read, I mean clearly read, the [things people are saying. cause, no one has said, or even implied, that you should live with someone you just met. in fact, I'll tell you exactly what I did say. I said, "jumping into moving with your boyfriend under such circumstances, isn't good." does that seriously sound like I'm advocating you risk your life, to you, or that I'm downplaying your situation? if it does, you need some serious help, and not one any center can give.
I was gay all through my teen years and though am no longer, I know the torment I went through during that time with my family not being excepting. So, I would definitely support my children no matter what.
No, you really shouldn't just jump up and go do it. I do say you have received some talk, and I am sad this discussion made you angry.
You see, opinions are simply opinions, and are given in the style people tend to be made of, or their personality.
Instead of being angry, use what you can use, discard the rest. This was only a discussion, not a book on your personal worth.
No matter what is said, you are the person in control, and who truly knows the situation as it pertains to you. I wish you luck, and hope you will find a solution that best suits you.
,.
Actually, gt not knowing what you want has nothing to do with childhood, for there are some children, who are smart and think for themselves, unlike some adults. What I meant is that, you don't talk to a child the way you'd talk to an adult, and, Because I assume you'd understand that people express their opinions differently. If you don't like what you hear, that's just too bad for you, like I said take the bits you wish. And though in regards to tharapists, not what you want but the way you want to, gt. But again, this is going way off the original topic. So, Do yourself a favor and do things when you're ready to do them, but don't double responsabilitty others for yourself. I wish you the best, help yourself.
Quoting post 127:
I was gay all through my teen years and though am no longer, I know the torment I went through during that time with my family not being excepting.
No longer? You still are gay (not saying that's a bad thing.) You can't change it anymore than you can change your genetic makeup, where you were born, etc. All you've done is suppress it.
Ok, here's what's gonna happen. I'm trying to be as calm about this as I can, but I don't think continuously rubbing it in my face how worthless and stupid I am is really necessary. The last few posts haven't done this, but there was plenty of that throughout the whole topic. I can't stop you guys from thinking that, but if I see one more comment to that effect, I really will stop posting. Not that that's a threat, really, but hopefully that will make you think.
Now, let me explain something. Lots of people who go to NFB training centers must be really tough people, or have an aggressive streak inside them. I don't want to go alone, not without the support of someone else, because I know I'm not strong. I think it would be a good idea to get training, but not without having someone to lean on when things get difficult. I honestly don't see what's wrong with that. There have been scientific experiments done that show that baby monkeys would rather cuddle up to a warm, soft fake version of a mother than a hard, cold one, even though the hard one was holding a bottle of milk. This study was done to show that humans need a certain amount of socialization and love, some more than others, but none at all is detrimental. I'm one of those people who doesn't need much, but take away that little bit of comfort I do get and I'm royally fucked, to put it bluntly. When I was at the school for the blind, they had this pilot program my senior year where they put a couple of students into apartments, which was supposed to teach them independence. It was a joke, because it was a wonder we were allowed to wipe our asses by ourselves, but that's beside the point. I had dealt with depression for most of my life, sure, but never quite the way it hit me during that year. I know part of that had to do with the fact that I wasn't allowed any freedom, yet I lived in the most isolated part of the building. Anyway, I couldn't sleep, but I was always lethargic. I couldn't think straight, but I continued to hold an A average, because I barely had to lift a finger to do schoolwork. Simple things, like showering, were unimportant. Thinking of words to say hurt my brain, and pretending to smile hurt my face. I felt empty, yet weighed down beyond belief. So many conflicting and disturbing sensations nearly drove me over the edge. Now you can all laugh. I know most people don't believe in that kind of thing. But let me tell you, it was hell. The worst part was, no one believed me. I had this guidance counselor, who was a total bitch, but I once tried to tell her, and she told me that it was impossible because I had good grades and a boyfriend. Don't ask me where the logic was in that, but whatever. She was basically in charge of the program, and she hated me because I refused to do meal plans, which I thought were pointless. Anyway, during this particular conversation we had, she said, "well, you show up for school every day, right?" to which I had to say yes. So she said obviously I wasn't that bad off. She had to know as well as I did, though, that it's impossible to skip school there. So, I decided to test my theory. About a month later, so she wouldn't get suspicious, I locked myself in that shitty apartment and tried to see if I could skip school for the day. School began at 8:00 AM. By 8:20, no lie, there were security guards and teachers pounding on my door. So much for that, huh? Luckily, I had planned it on a day when I happened to have a cold. It was a minor thing, really, but I had to pretend to be sicker than I was so I could go home and not get in trouble.
I never said, "I told you so." But I'll bet she thought twice before opening her fat, stupid mouth about that again.
How does this relate to training? Simple: if I'm out of state, far from home, without a soul there who would care about me, well, I can definitely see myself spiraling down that far again. I've dealt with bouts of depression since then, of course. But I think the stress of training, plus being that far from home, and knowing I could never go back anyway, plus being stuffed into a box of ideology I don't agree with...that would be enough to start me back down that black road. At least, if my boyfriend went with me, I would see a friendly, familiar face every day. I would be able to talk about things, laugh about things. I wouldn't be 100% cut off.
No matter what you guys think, I'm going to ask him about it. And if he says no, I'll let it go. I'll never bring it up again. Contrary to popular belief around here, I'm normally not an unreasonable person. I do have needs, just like everyone else. Mine just may happen to be different from yours, that's all. To be honest, that's why I can't stay angry about this discussion. You're all doing what you think is right, whether that's cutting down everyone and everything in your way in order to trailblaze, or trying to stand on the sidelines and be neutral.
So, what's next? I don't know, and that's the truth. I don't. I can't find a middle ground to this situation. Do I go through practically military training and have a breakdown? Do I live with my boyfriend now, even though I have my doubts and misgivings? Those are the two ends of the spectrum, but I can't seem to find a happy medium. This discussion has been centered around the two as if they're the only two options. I'm guessing that's because they are the only two options. I don't know which is worse, as horrible as that sounds.
speaking for myself, only, GT, no, you aren't encouraging me to think any differently about your situation. at least, not in a positive manner, as you likely wish would happen. you're still making excuses for why you are or aren't acting a certain way, which is far from praise worthy, in my eyes.
if anything, I'm thinking how ashame it is that instead of realizing that people are trying to be helpful, it's sad that, when it comes down to it, you'd let your anger be fueled by stuff said online, by people you've never met, no less, and who, as I've said, are genuinely trying to help you.
as you even said, everyone is presenting their thoughts exactly as they are, so you only have yourself to blame if you're angered by that.
I, too, went to a school for the blind, and refuse to allow myself to be traumatized by what I've gone through. hell, I refuse to let myself be traumatized by anything I've gone through, and instead, figure out what I can take from experiences, that'll fuel me and help me be a good person for myself, and, in turn, for the world as a whole.
as someone who has gone to an NFB training center, I can attest to the fact that not all of us (myself included) have agressive personalities. it's quite dumb to lump people into one category, especially considering you gripe when people don't accept certain things about you that you claim are different/abnormal.
also, the reason you moving with your boyfriend, or moving out of your parent's house and attending a training center, are the only two suggestions posed here, is cause they're the only one's you've made it seem are possible. you seem unwilling to consider anything else someone might suggest, so perhaps that's why no other suggestions have been presented. just sayin'.
something I forgot to add: GT, how do you seriously think you're gonna get far in life by not getting away from what's familiar, not learning to socialize with new people, and not allowing yourself to become friends with them?
at NFB centers, in particular, the staff are there, not only as your teachers, but as people who will gradually become friends. of course, you may be closer to some than others, but that's how life works, anyway, so that's to be expected. or, given your attitude, you may not be close to anyone, which is what I'm anticipating, based on your posts here.
I don't understand how you can ask for help, as you're doing, yet, remain so closed off to life's experiences, and the people you encounter (whether in real life, or online). it's ashame, really.
Perhaps it is harder for me to understand where you are coming from, or how it feels, is because I've always wanted to get away from the bull shit and drama in my family. Every single time i was away from them I was always happier.
I think you are deciding to do something that will help you in many ways, should you fully go for the training possibility. However, it is for the wrong reasons. Firstly, it is a given you will have to do things that will get you out of your comfort zone. Why? Because there are certain things in your life you will have to do regardless of whether or not you are comfortable doing it. When you live on your own, you will need to cook things and work with a hot oven/stove. It would be rather boring to go along with the idea that you would just eat sandwiches for the rest of your life, or things you wouldn't have to cook. It would get boring and it wouldn't be good for you. You'll have to use transportation to get places when there is nobody to take you who you know. What else will happen when your parents die, or like I said there isn't anyone else available whom you know? Certainly you won't cancel a big interview simply because you don't have someone you know to take you there.
You need to do this for yourself, not because your boyfriend does it. So, let's just say things don't work out with you and him, and you break up in the middle of training. Would you just quit because of that? Would you let that get you down? It doesn't sound like a good reason to do this because someone else does it. You have some strengthening to do, and hopefully if you decide to go to Louisiana it will help, if you let it.
I can't speak for everyone else. But I will call things as I see them. Sorry if you don't like what I say, but would you rather hear what I have to honestly say and think? Or would you rather hear what you want. The first one is less likely to leave you in as much shock should something go wrong as the second would.
It couldn't have been any clearer, Ryan...
I'm just curious, what is it you think I want to hear? I'm asking, not out of anger, but because I'm just wondering how, if I don't even know what I want, you think I'm asking to hear something specific?
As for the training center, I don't think I made myself clear. I'm not saying that I don't want to experience things. when I went to the center in Pittsburgh, I had a normal level of anxiety the first few times I used the stove, but I actually grew to rather enjoy cooking. My only issue is that I got rusty with those skills from not using them. travel is a whole other story. I may even be a lost cause when it comes to that. I've had several different mobility instructors, and while a couple of them were idiots, I had a couple who really tried to help me. I've gotten better at aligning to cross streets, but I still can't do mental mapping at all. then again, on one of the NFB lists I'm subscribed to, or maybe it was a different list, there was a girl who said she had the same problem, but the NFB travel instructors showed her how to do that and she said she vastly improved. It was stories like that which encouraged me, but I'm still wary due to my own personal struggles. I'm saying that there are certain things about me, flaws, if that's an easier concept for you to understand, that will get in my way. Some of that may very well be my own fault, but I don't think all of it is. Even if you, personally, don't believe this, lots of research points to the fact that depression does have a chemical component. That's not an excuse, that's science. I'm saying that I would like to have someone's support if that comes back to haunt me.
Also, if you met me in that kind of environment, you probably would never even know any of this. I try to act as normal as I can, even when I'm falling apart, not only to appear normal, but to also appear professional. My mom, who has at times been my harshest critic, has even said quite a few times that I defy the stereotype of blind people and their social awkwardness. Not that I'm a social butterfly, far from it. I guess I just pass for being normal, even when I don't feel normal. If I'm too old to be acting this way, well, how would it look to the staff if I admitted it to them? Not good, right? So, I would keep a professionally guarded relationship with them, as I should. So, I would want the support of someone I already know, someone I don't need to keep a game face on for.
GT, I tried. I would stop reading these posts for your sanity; if all people can do is to be cruel, I think you're better off investing your time in people who actually really care about you.
The part you said about making yourself appear to be fine and normal, I understand because I did the same thing for a while. Some people were still aware that something was up, though. As far as people saying what you want to hear? It could be anything from saying something like everything's fine stop worrying, to just someone who agrees with you just to make you feel better. I'm glad you aren't getting angry, because I'm trying to understand more instead of jumping to conclusions even though it might sound like I am. I guess I still am in a way, but still.
Rachael, I can't believe you'd suggest she not look at this board, just cause you two have problems with the way some things are presented. then again, I shouldn't be surprised, since you seem to think that everyone should be thin skinned and have soft approaches in life. that isn't how the world works, though, much to your dismay, I'm sure.
GT, you know how it'd look to the staff if you admitted your flaws/whatever you're having issue with? it'd be seen as the respectable thing it is, cause you'd be showing that you're attempting to take charge, or that you need help. it wouldn't look bad, at all, as you think it might.
I, too, used to act as normal as possible when I was depressed, and guess what? although I didn't know it or believe it, people knew the truth. that sort of thing is easy to see through, regardless of how much the person in question thinks they're masking it.
so, on that front, as well, GT, why not just be honest? you may think that'll be worse, in the end, but that's just your paranoia/depression talking.
as for people potentially telling you what you wanna hear, it seems like, when you brought this up, you've wanted to hear things like, "I'm so sorry you've been through all this, that your parents treat you badly, and that you can't get out of your situation."
maybe people in real life would tell you those things, but you can be more helpful without pitying people, which is exactly what's being done here.
I’m going to get outside the box GT and tell you something.
First you pose an issue about how difficult it is to be in a different race relationship. You receive opinions back on how others think about it.
Next you pose an issue, and give your thoughts on it and you receive solutions and opinions on that too.
Here is how you are now looking to an outsider. An outsider has no idea about you, your personal life, how you grew up, if you are depressed, happy, rich, poor, and even if all you say is even true at all. All that outsider has to go on is what you give them.
You continue to add things to your situation it seems to make any and all suggestions impossible, because, well what if you jump off a bridge due to the suggestions you feel were mean and unjust?
Of course no one wishes that on you but you won’t get sympathy either. Here is the reason why. The outsider doesn’t know if you are truthful, and as you add to your situation more and more negative items your first postings become less credible.
Let me give you an example. I post I have a pair of shoes never wear. What do you think about that? I get back, well you should wear these new shoes because why did you buy them? Well, you know these shoes are white, and I might get them dirty. Okay shoes wash. Well, I can’t tie them. Well, you can learn to tie them. Yes, but if I learn to tie them and they get dirty, you see I’ve always had a fear of white shoes. And you see it goes on and on, so pretty soon the outsider says, wait a minute, what’s wrong here?
The outsider has known idea at all what is going on with you other then they see from start, so you shouldn’t get mad when you aren’t receiving sympathy, but sound, honest, suggestions.
I do admit the language of some was course, but that is what happens when you place an opinion, it becomes a debate. I am sure you have listen to people debate issues in politics? It gets out of hand.
I have also given you more suggestions on how to do this other than the 2, but no matter what you’re mental, physical, or abilities are, it will be you that does anything about it. Even your boyfriend will be unable to help you if you will not help yourself unless he wants a child not a woman.
I honestly hadn't considered it from that perspective. I've always put much more stock in the writtten word than anything that someone says out loud, with a few exceptions, of course. But it hadn't occurred to me that some might feel the opposite way. By adding more details, I thought I would be more, not less, believable. Since that's not the case, since I now look like a fraud, I see very little point in continuing to post. I'm sorry you feel that way, and I can't expect you to believe a word I said, but I could be doing a lot worse. At least I'm not weaving a tale of woe to scam anyone out of money or something.
I suppose I'll figure something out on my own, in the end, since that's the adult thing to do. I only asked here out of desperation. I didn't have anyone in real life to turn to. Sometimes, I guess I like to hear myself talk, or think, as the case may be, because it's so rare when I'm actually allowed to do that. Maybe I do get carried away.
Wayne is absolutely right, GT. I, too, feel as he does, and am saddened to know you wouldn't have even considered what he presented, a possibility. cause, as he said, by adding more and more to your supposed story, when people continuously give you suggestions/opinions on each thing and you repeatedly shoot them down, turning deaf ears to what you don't wanna hear, the less credible you look, in the end.
so, yes, I think it's best that either you think aloud to yourself, talk to your boyfriend as was suggested by a few of us, or buckle down, as was also suggested by many, and do the adult thing on your own.
I'm not saying don't ask for help, but ultimately, you're the one who will make the final decision. your boyfriend can share his opinion, as we've all done here, but you might shoot that down, too, for all I know.
Well as positive as I try to be I can't change perception, it is just a fact of how things are.
Talking is good, but when you came back withfew, well, I'll give that some thought. What if I do that how could I get it done due to this thing, not with well you don't understand, I'm in a cage and.
I again feel you are a smart person, and the written word is what we have here not talking outloud. The written word is in my opinion more powerful, because you can think and create the exact thing you want to say.
I personally find that when I'm in a dispute with someone email is the best way to get is solved, because I can read what they say, think about it objectively, than answer.
Again, in whatever you decide to do, or not do, I'll wish you luck. Sometimes you'll find you have to take a step to see what it is like to walk. If you just sit and think about walking you never actually feel what it is like. One step, see what you have, take another step, and soon you'll find you have gotten to where you want to go.
personally I believe that you are born gay. Yes, if I have kids and they turn out to be gay I would love them no matter what.
Well said to the last poster.
I am very glad to know that there are still people who accept others regardless of there sexual preferences.
Me too. I get so tired of the it's a sin in the eyes of god nonsense. And it pisses me off when people force their kids to go through therapy that geerally does more harm than good.
On the original subject, it's not even really a question for me. Of course I'd accept it.
I've got a couple of things to say about the derailment that happened a bit ago. Wish I'd seen it while it was happening.
First of all, all of you who were being particularly harsh and confrontational should be ashamed of yourselves. Your good points go out the window the instant you put someone's guard up or hurt them, more often than not, and you're all smart enough to know that. When being taught to fight, does your sparring partner constantly hammer you until you bleed, even though it's going to teach you faster? No. He doesn't baby you either, but he sure as hell doesn't brutalize you. And don't give me any bullshit about "we were trying to help" either, because I think there has been some awfully perverse pleasure being shown, here and elsewhere, with the viciousness of said supposed help.
However, with that caveat out of the way, I will say this much, and GT, I hope you read this. Much of what was said has merit, if you are able to look past the petty and immature bits. For whatever reason, you appear to be ill-prepared for what you're facing. Your two choices are to prepare for it and then go forward, or to choose to remain unprepared and ultimately remain trapped. However you do it, that's what it'll boil down to. You can say "Well, living at home, at least I'm no longer a target, I'm inoffensive and not being hurt", and that's true, but is it how you want to spend your whole life? I imagine it isn't, or else you wouldn't be having this conflict. You're a mouse, but even you have a bit of a spine. You want more of that sunlight you mentioned, more of it than you've got, and don't know how to get it. Thus, I hit on the second point: making yourself prepared. I've never been in your position, exactly, but I've come through an awfully low patch, a prolonged one, and sometimes you just have to put your head down and bulrush it. It may run counter to your nature. It may scare the hell out of you. It may feel wrong until you break on through and get results. But by god, it's almost certainly going to work in the long run.
My personal advice to you here is this:
1. Your skills come first. If you go to your boyfriend's place to live, then at least in the short-term you're just going to be a largely unskilled woman in an admittedly welcoming environment, but unless you have immediate plans to get some of those skills which will make you more self-reliant,,it may be easy, at least for awhile, to be easy with your safety. Even the best of men, however, may weary of this and either urge you to fend for yourself a bit or, in worse cases, dump you. You don't want that, and you don't want to put undue stress on your partner, which is why I say I think your skills come first. If your boyfriend wants to come with you to support you, so what if you're leaning on him a bit? If you think you need that, and it pays off, then you're golden. Be warned, though, of what another poster said...things can change, people can change, and your motivation for doing this has to be yourself, not your boyfriend. If he bails, or decides not to go, I think you still owe it to yourself to tough it out.
Now, I'm going to be a little harder, though I'll endeavor not to snipe or anything. One thing that's been hit on several times is very true. If you spend all your time worrying instead of doing, you'll end up dying unfulfilled. The NFB and your boyfriend, and life in general, aren't going to shoot you with your father's gun. You're going to scramble, fail, cry, love, laugh, succeed, and scramble some more. That's how everybody lives, and there need be no shame in it. Risk nothing, gain nothing. If you're happy with that, then keep your encapsulation intact. If you're not - and clearly you're not - then your only choice is to break it. Don't ask someone else to do it, just do it yourself, even if it's a chip at a time.
One last thing. If you want to talk, about this or anything in general, hit me up. You seem as if you could use an ear, if not a friend.
shepherdwolf, people such as yourself, and others like you, who hold this view about softening things, are probably a huge reason why people such as GT are so bitter and guarded.
it's fine to dislike what's said, to even disagree with it, and even to want things to be sugar coated, if that floats your boat. however, labeling things that have been said here, that aren't articulated to your liking, as immature, is beyond idiotic.
if GT, or anyone with a similar mind set as her, isn't able to see what's offered here as people wanting to help her better her life, that's her problem. you can lead a horse to water, but you can't force him to drink, as they say.
Chelsea, I have a question: why is it acceptable for you to label Shepherdwolf's opinion as "beyond idiotic" but not okay for him to label others' opinions as "immature"? I don't quite get how that works. Shepherdwolf has the right to his own opinion about what has been said here, as do you, and as does everyone else.
As for Shepherdwolf's comment, I don't really agree that people were taking "perverse pleasure" in being vicious on the boards. I'm not even sure people were being particularly vicious. Needlessly harsh? Perhaps, but I really do think that's a matter of taste, if nothing else. I do take your point though; sometimes you draw more flies with honey than with vinegar.
That being said, GT, there comes a point when you're just going to have to do a thing that scares the living shit out of you. Do it, or don't do it and spend your life wondering if you've imagined every possible bad thing that could go wrong, but the fact is that no one can do it for you. They can support you, walk beside you as you go, but nobody can bear your cross for you. And the best reason to do this, as Shepherdwolf has already said, is to do it for yourself.
Let me qualify something here, in case it wasn't clear.
Most of you, and most of your comments, were perhaps hard but not vicious. Only a specific few comments were, in my eyes at least, vicious enough to warrant the "you ought to be ashamed of yourselves" thing, and that was said because I think a double standard of sorts is in action here. Meglet highlighted it very nicely. It is apparently okay for people to have harsh judgments, but the instant someone uses said harsh judgment against them, they're what's wrong with society, they're the apparent reason GT is in her predicament.
Listen, folks. It simply doesn't work this way. GT is obviously in a tough spot, and I am not saying that everything she says, thinks or justifies is okay. I don't believe it is, truth be told. But I also don't believe telling her multiple times how she's a coward is going to help in any way. I don't see how telling her that people like her are what's wrong with society is going to help her in any way. You may believe it. You may even have the right to state it. I'm not taking either of those things away from you as an individual. But when you want to help someone, you really do have to sit back and judge what will or will not help them before you let your fingers move, or open your mouth. Easier said than done, perhaps, but it bears consideration. Telling someone they're a coward, in a confrontational-looking way, is probably not geared to help them, unless that person believes that firing someone up is a good way to motivate them...and even then, since this approach is awfully controversial given GT's persona as demonstrated here and elsewhere, the validity of the approach and the wisdom of using it can be called rather sharply into question. Just because you speak does not mean you tried to help, and just because you voiced your opinion does not mean you were constructive.
I will also freely admit that this topic generally hit a low point and got better with time, which is good. It became far more constructive and appeared to start going someplace. This is good.
I want to wrap this up by clarifying yet one more thing. I am not advocating the sugar-coating of everything, at all times. Anyone who knows me knows I'm actually not generally in favour of that approach. I'm not going to be the sort of person who tells a person with a problem that whatever they do is okay, so no, I'm not going to be the reason people like GT are bitter and guarded. I, like Rachel, just happen to know when some people seem to get off on being as harsh as they can without directly slinging insults, and I abhore it. Be hard. Tell the truth with facts. Don't give an inch. But draw the freaking line. Heaven knows there is one.
really? you all can't figure out why referring to something that you don't like as immature, is idiotic? let me spell it out for you. it's idiotic because, on one hand, you're saying some have crossed the line, in your view, while on the other, you say that you believe in not sugar coating things. I digress, though.
oh, and, one more thing. in case you didn't notice, shepherdwolf, GT has admitted that she finds some of what's being said helpful, but from the looks of things, she doesn't wanna actually do anything about it. that doesn't fall on us, for the way we conveyed what we were saying. it falls on her, since, ultimately, it's her life, her decision.
Chelsea, I said before and say again that I thought much of what was said was helpful. This doesn't qualify -everything as helpful, however.
Immaturity as denoted previously can be defined as the juxtapositioning of your own morals atop someone else. Children do this; mature adults generally do not. Just because person 1 has no problem being called a coward confrontationally does not mean person b should be called a coward in the same manner. To do so, in my view, constitutes something of a leap, and this leap is immature if the original poster, having failed in their attempt, attempts to blame the failure on the target alone. Failure rests with the incompatibility overall, not with the target or with the speaker.
In this light, I am willing to accept that my own logic might call part of my statement immature. I don't work wwel with pretense. If telling you that your emotional response is immature is an excellent way to get you to freeze up, get angry and totally lose sight of -why it was immature, then I'm technically guilty of the very same offense. That being said, I urge any and all who have been honestly offended by this to speak up, at which point you can be sure that I will endeavor not to ruffle your feathers anymore. That alone, right there, will put me a step ahead of a few I've seen, who continue old behavior knowing full well how much it pisses people off. Let me add that crying foul in order to prove a philosophical point would be in bad taste.
oh, believe me, you didn't ruffle my feathers. I was simply stating my perspective, regarding what you posted.
I wonder why some of you decide to take it upon yourselves to speak for her. I also wonder why if you don't believe she will ever change, why you continue to even bother saying anything. This topic has become a runaway train.
since this topic was brought back up, why not try to help someone else who may be in GT's situation? just cause she won't listen, doesn't mean that someone else down the line, won't see where people are coming from.
if we all had the attitude of, "well, this person didn't get the point we were trying to make, so we should just shut up," no one would be encouraged to think, get help, or simply have comfort in knowing that others have been through similar things.
It amuses me that some people on here revel in beating a dead horse. Chelsea, I've made an interesting observation: You seem to feel the need to reply to every post that even slightly disagrees with you. What's the point of being overtly confrontational? This is how these boards get off track and cause people to talk in circles.
Right on, Bernadetta. Thank you very much. I think if one looks back at the posts, we can see that GT has said that some things have been helpful, but ok. And one last thing. I don't think being comfrontational will be of any help to anyone, so let alone gt, for goodness sake!
lol. gotta love it. it's always my fault, around here. thanks for the laugh, Bernadetta.
so, GT, assuming you might read this topic, at some point, where's the update?
GT, it is not your obligation to give us an update if you're not up to it, thank you very much. And, I guess it's ironic that the people who don't see their own faults consider themselves helpful to others. But I digress.
beating a dead horse is repeating oneself, not responding to something someone said. the latter is what I do. I'm not bringing up these topics myself to say something I've already said, or attacking others, the way some people do when they don't like someone, or opinions that differ from theirs.
I didn't see it as preaching to her. She ask a major question, and posed a major situation.
I was the one that stated a man doesn't want a child, he wants a woman.
Now, that statement, was not meant as mean, but a fact.
If a man wanted a child, he'd go over to her place, and tell her exactly what she's going to do, when, and take her away. He hasn't for whatever reasons.
Responding to what someone says is how these post grow. The responses are to make conversation, share opinions, and such, not to beat a dead hourse.
When you post to say "why keep beating a dead hourse, you have contributed to the beating.
Just my opinion.
*sigh* This, ladies and gentleman is the very reason why I'm not posting to these boards as much and I have been trying and trying to say this all along.
All these topics go round in circles because certain people think it is their right to constantly bully and put others down and think that their opinion is the only one that matters.
I'm frankly done playing with children so I stay away and just observe.
Until those few who like to wreck it for everybody can grow up a bit, I suggest you seek support knowing this fact.
It's up to you what you do, but it upsets me to see people who are in genuine need of advice/support about their living situation, get bullied and attacked.
Just remember, as even the bullies say on here, you put it out there, you will get ridiculed, again, not from most people fortunately but oh how a few bullying words can put a dampener one everything.
I hope my postings aren't seen as bullying, but constructive.
On this one I even gave examples of how to make what I think happen.
If one ask a question, or presents a situation, they will receive answers.
These answers will come in many forms.
These answers will also generate answers to the answers, and that generates replies, to the answers that were answered.
Yes, it seems to go in circles, but that is not what is being done. What is being done is conversation.
I don't see any problem with posting your opinion on a post you feel is bullying, or childish, or dead wrong, but when you do so, you are contributing to the circle.
I say, lets just relax, have a conversation, and let the world turn.
Respectfully submitted to the circle.
Smile.
Honestly, Wayne, I really admire what you've done for this topic for the most part. You did indeed give constructive advice, and kept a respectful but honest tone throughout. So good on ya, among others.
I won't waste time and say who did or didn't. Because most likely, the ones with a guilty consience and who have a reason to be defensive attitude are most likely the ones who do it.
what you said, Wayne, is right on. no one is getting defensive, bullying anyone, or what have you. we all have different ways of conveying our thoughts, just as people have different ways of taking what's here, or in life.
Wayne, you're one of the good ones. The worst you do is the worst I usually do, and that's ramble. Some people are just apt to talk a lot; nothing too wrong with that. Heh. I second what Meglet said; you brought a lot of good points and perspective to the table, and even if other people may have been trying to say much the same in different ways, I feel like you succeeded where they might not have. You don't get aggressive and you don't feel it's necessary to snipe, and that means you're far more apt to get someone to stop and think than those on the boards who are more confrontational in their posting style. Good deeds and good intentions differ.
Wayne, I feel you've really kept a balanca", and I admireyou for doing so, thank you for your constructive qsts ^_^
balance, points*** excuse me ^_^
You know Wayne, I may disagree with you at times, and I definitely challenge you on a lot of what you say on these boards, but I like your style of posting. You may be dead wrong sometimes, but you're a simple, caring guy with honestly good intentions and it shows. In this case, you were right on with all of yoru contributions. I just wanted you to know that, since I bet you think that because I challenge you on a lot of what you say, I don't value yoru contributions. Your contributions are usually very gently put, and graciously offered, which is always a welcome and refreshing way to be on here.
I sincerely appriciate you all. Now lets argue some. Smile.
Wayne, you want to argue? You SERIOUSLY want to argue? How could you be so silly as to want to argue on a board in which there has already been so much arguing already... what are you THINKING?
Hahaha!
Circles. Big circles. Smile.